The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Paul B]

As a boy i found Enchytrae

I used to go out with a girl with that name. Susan, Susan Enchytrae. I think she was Dutch.

I also have no idea if compost pile worms are good for anything outside compost bins. There is an entire plethora of things I have no idea about as the universe is full of facts that elude me.

 

[CB06]

I used to go out with a girl with that name. Susan, Susan Enchytrae. I think she was Dutch.

I also have no idea if compost pile worms are good for anything outside compost bins. There is an entire plethora of things I have no idea about as the universe is full of facts that elude me.

They seem very similar to earth worms. Do you think my fish would be fine eating them considering they eat fruit skins and other food scraps. Nothing in them that could make my fish sick?

 

[Paul B]

I think they would be fine, but as I said, I have no experience with them so I would be guessing.

 

[Stigigemla]

Yes. Just use the normal way of propagating Enchytrae.
Here is a little movie:


I would rinse the new worms in water for a few seconds.
I believe the worms I had was a bit more slender and a little bit longer and more clear - not so white.
That indicates that maybe there are different species so it could be possible to try even if your worms does
look a little bit different.

 

[CB06]

Ok thanks guys. I might try digging around in my garden hopefully I can find some in there.

 

[fishybizzness]

Ok thanks guys. I might try digging around in my garden hopefully I can find some in there.

I've thrown earth worms in my tank many times when I find them while doing gardening. It's like a feeding frenzy tug of war between the fish! It amazing watching how aggressive the fish become when they get a taste of the worms! Apparently earth worms taste really good to fish!

 

[alabella1]

Ive only had a short reefing career in comparison to yours, In the 14 years I’ve been in the hobby I had never quaranteened either, a lot of my fish had been with me this entire time, then back in October I added a new fish and a few weeks later all bar 2 fish were dead... with what was likely velvet, I thought I’d got pretty immune fish until then, the odd white spot outbreak that resolved a few days later, flukes in a tang... so I’m not sure really what to say, was I unlucky? Was the strain That came in on the fish particularly virulent? I don’t know. Now I don’t follow your methods exactly, I do predominantly feed frozen foods, but not the minced up clams etc like you do. Wondering if yours is an all in method (feed, bacteria and various mud) if you can’t do that is it better to completely quarantine? . but here I am restocking and I’m not quarantining again, gonna get me some clams and mud lol..

I feel like I'm reading something I wrote. This EXACT thing happened to me. I NEVER QT'd anything. I always bought fish at the best price I could find. I had little to no luck with ones bought online. The ones from my LFS were hit or miss. They do treat with copper for the most part, but no full QTs. So... flash forward to this past May... on the 6th I picked up a gold head sleeper goby and a coral beauty from my normal LFS which was the last one he had and it might have been there for a bit. It was eating, looked healthy, etc. May 8th my black leopard died. May 9th my Powder Brown died. I was so bummed they were my favorites. May 10th on a whim I happened to be passing another LFS and I stopped in to check it out. The place was so much cleaner, brighter, bigger and fish quality seemed higher for just a few bucks or so more so I grabbed a blue eyed anthias that looked healthy and was in a tank full of friends. Within a few days the 14th the coral beauty died, the anthias went MIA the 15th and i noticed my black clowns were looking dusty. I quickly began planning for a QT. Things went downhill real fast. The golden head sleeper, mandarin, black and white clown, mocha clown, green chromis, orange clown all dead within day. I got the QT up and most were okay but I did end up losing a few more over the next month or two - orange spot shrimp goby, pajama cardinal and one spot foxface all went in june. In July the Banggai and yellow coris died. Early June I got a brand new tank and began building from scratch. I'm still building it out. My old tank full of corals in inverts remains fallow. 5 fish made it into the new tank. the firefish didn't last more than a few days so the 4 survivors were the gold nugget wrasse, the tomini tang, the lunate tail crescent wrasse and the pajama cardinal who is the oldest of all the fish. I've since added new and fully quarantined pair of clowns and 2 dottybacks. All is going well so far. I have in 2 QTs a white tail tang, a purple tang and a desjardin sailfin. After reading this... i know these 3 were healthy as they came from people who owned them for awhile and had no issues with them at all... I want to just pull them from QT and get them into the tank.

 

[CB06]

Hi @Paul B watched your interview on this topic with humble fish and have a few questions. I started my tank with dry rock and artificial saltwater before I found this method. I already have 2 clownfish no corals yet. Since then I have switched to NSW and I feed live worms and clams. In the interview you said you must use live rock to introduce all the good bacterias so now that I already am using dry rock is there another way I can add this? My next question is I also don’t have a sump like you and I noticed you said something about not using a top bc of this. I’m using a glass lid to prevent most evaporation and fish jumping. Just wondering if there was a reason for not using a top and if it is bad if you don’t have a sump.
thanks.

 

[Paul B]

Redlynch, nice to meet you. I have nothing against a tank top. My tank is just set up s it is difficult to do so I have plastic all around to help prevent that from happening.

If you now use real seawater you will be getting bacteria unless you get it from an LFS as they may sterilize it. If you live near a beach just collect some mud or sand if you can. There isn't any other way I can think of but the shellfish would also help with that.

 

[CB06]

Redlynch, nice to meet you. I have nothing against a tank top. My tank is just set up s it is difficult to do so I have plastic all around to help prevent that from happening.

If you now use real seawater you will be getting bacteria unless you get it from an LFS as they may sterilize it. If you live near a beach just collect some mud or sand if you can. There isn't any other way I can think of but the shellfish would also help with that.

Ok great thanks.

 

[CB06]

@Paul B I couldn’t find clams at seafood shop and ended up getting live mussels but they only sold them in a bag with quite a few. I only have 2 clowns how long do u think I could keep these frozen before it wouldn’t be as beneficial to the fish? Thanks.

 

[Paul B]

You could keep them frozen probably for a year. Of course all frozen foods lose some nutrition and bacteria over time, but I use clams that I get as bait and keep it for a year. If thats what you got, use it.

 

[CB06]

You could keep them frozen probably for a year. Of course all frozen foods lose some nutrition and bacteria over time, but I use clams that I get as bait and keep it for a year. If thats what you got, use it.

Ok thanks.

 

[Mikey-D]

I have been looking for something like this write up since I started my journey into the abyss we call "Reefing". I have read much on the QT method and when I started gathering supplies I did in fact have a cart ready to go with the QT starter package. I kept it there for a bit cause something just didnt sit right with me and how I wanted to approach my setup.

I want to thank everyone to keep this posting over the years cause it was today I stumbled upon it and I have to say I will be going the no QT method or meds or hospital route. I also am the one going with the Ocean quaried rock and sand with all the extra critters and CUC that I can keep to promote a healthy ecosystem. I am also looking into harvesting my own phytoplankton and keep everyone fed and happy with natural food.

This is my journey and I am very excitied to see where I end up. Any exta advice or expierence is alsways greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thank you all for your wealth of knowledge.

I dont know yet or have experenced keeping certain fish as my starter fish will be the hardy type at first.

Inital Fish
1. Clownfish
2. Royal Gamma
3. Kaudern's Cardinalfish
4.ChalkBass
5.Bicolor Benny

Inverts and Plants
1. Long Tentacle Anemone(Purple)
2. Dwarf Colored Feather Duster
3. Shaving Brush Plant
4. Red Bamboo Algae

Coral
1. Unsure, havent dug into that department yet, but definietly starting with softies.

 

[Paul B]

Mikey, just remember that a new tank will not be healthy no matter what you do. Fish in new tanks are very susceptible to everything as it takes many months for bacteria to settle down and do what they are supposed to do but if you add a bunch of stuff from the sea you would probably be better off.

Good Luck

 

[Hot2na]

Mikey, just remember that a new tank will not be healthy no matter what you do. Fish in new tanks are very susceptible to everything as it takes many months for bacteria to settle down and do what they are supposed to do but if you add a bunch of stuff from the sea you would probably be better off.

Good Luck

Exactly .. My last "new" setup saw my fish scratching and twitching for a few months.. I had used natural sea water to start it and after about 9 months everything settled down , the fish became perfectly healthy .. fed live foods whenever possible, including blackworms... NO DRUGS ...

 

[Mikey-D]

Mikey, just remember that a new tank will not be healthy no matter what you do. Fish in new tanks are very susceptible to everything as it takes many months for bacteria to settle down and do what they are supposed to do but if you add a bunch of stuff from the sea you would probably be better off.

Good Luck

I do want to add that I dont plan on adding anything right away. My first lessons will be keeping stability in the tank and once I master that and set up a good testing schedule that becomes routine and not inconvient to my schedule, thats when the fish, inverts and softies will begin. I am patient enough to and willing to take it step by step.

 

[Costareefer]

That’s right boost the fishes immune system instead of sterilizing it. Pathogens are different all over the world and the caution is watch out for mixing Carribean and pac/indo species. Many times the immune system of the fish cannot tolerate a wholesale infection of different parasites.

 

[cancun]

I have been looking for something like this write up since I started my journey into the abyss we call "Reefing". I have read much on the QT method and when I started gathering supplies I did in fact have a cart ready to go with the QT starter package. I kept it there for a bit cause something just didnt sit right with me and how I wanted to approach my setup.

I want to thank everyone to keep this posting over the years cause it was today I stumbled upon it and I have to say I will be going the no QT method or meds or hospital route. I also am the one going with the Ocean quaried rock and sand with all the extra critters and CUC that I can keep to promote a healthy ecosystem. I am also looking into harvesting my own phytoplankton and keep everyone fed and happy with natural food.

This is my journey and I am very excitied to see where I end up. Any exta advice or expierence is alsways greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thank you all for your wealth of knowledge.

I dont know yet or have experenced keeping certain fish as my starter fish will be the hardy type at first.

Inital Fish
1. Clownfish
2. Royal Gamma
3. Kaudern's Cardinalfish
4.ChalkBass
5.Bicolor Benny

Inverts and Plants
1. Long Tentacle Anemone(Purple)
2. Dwarf Colored Feather Duster
3. Shaving Brush Plant
4. Red Bamboo Algae

Coral
1. Unsure, havent dug into that department yet, but definietly starting with softies.

Hi there....and hi to @Paul B.....how's your wife doing? I have been using the no QT method following Paul's method for 10 years minus the NSW because I live in the land locked MW lol......with success. I have had ich several times over the years, no in the last 5 or 6 years though. A few unfortunate losses of newly added fish early on here and there. I feed frozen or fresh, also I do run a UV. There are pros and cons to each method. In my case I find more pros than cons. My 2 cents. Good luck with your tank! Pics I took of my tank yesterday.

 

[Paul B]

Tomorrow I am speaking at the Long Island Reefers association. I went to one of there meetings probably in the 80s so I am sure no one recognizes me even though I have not changed a bit

I always said that quarantined, or medicated fish don't live as long as normal fish and there are very few, old fully quarantined tanks. I will discuss the scientific principles of that at the meeting. I have learned some this year by attending talks on the subject with Humans but many of the principals extend to fish.

Hint: It has to do with stress.