The people at the lfs screwed me and my clowns :(

[drernesto]

Welcome to the hobby, no need to panic.
nitrogen cycle could be started with the liverocks that you added, you don't need a fish of ghost feeding to do it but it will be faster. A fish to start a nitrogen cycle is considered a torture.
The best way is to add a bacteria as everyone is saying. I heard that One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria by Dr. Tims aquatics...
Just watch your fish for any sign of white spots, stress or disease and everything will be fine.

 

[Tautog]

Welcome, and I also wished I found this site before I purchased my tank.
I started with Live Rock. Filled the tank with water on Monday, added fish on Thursday. Most of those fish still swim, others died from Ick.
First, your water is too hot at 80-84. I keep mine at 76-77. Use 2 heaters just in case one goes out.
Second, mixing salt is easy. I also heat my water before mixing, salt will dissolve faster in warm water. I mix my water in garbage pail with a flat stick, wait an hour for things to settle, heater out before mixing. For the small amount your using wait 1/2 hour. Use a 1/2" hose to suck out debris and old water out. Now, add your water. Let gravity help you. Raise your bucket above the tank, use the hose to put back your water over the power head for dispersing. Water change done.
The reason you wait after mixing is to be sure your new salt water is ready, check Salinity, then add.
In a small tank, any change is is critical. Every time you add any thing, water, food, chemicals. I always under dose, you can always add more. If you add too much of anything it becomes harder to dilute, lower, or remove. Did you ever add more salt making water? When you do, see how much water you need to add!
Errors like that, high salinity, over dosing, over adding anything will make problems. Slow down, take your time, think twice, add once. Your LPS, well they want to sell. I've found buying stuff on line is usually better, easier, pest free(sometimes), and a better Q/A for information.
Good luck and let your tank age. Coraline algae, the purple stuff, should start growing on the back glass, then you will know your going in the right direction.
R2R is your best source for info, help, suggestions, equipment, sales, and fun. Don't be afraid to ask about anything, as silly or simple as it could be. Ask, ask, and ask. Every tank is a little different.

 

[john.m.cole3]

I think our members have you on track now. Nothing else to add except...

Welcome to Reef2Reef! The greatest online reefing forum around. We have the nicest members and this forum is very active as you can already see. Make sure to sign up for the daily emails and create a thread if you have a question or want to share something with us. You live in the same area as our lighting expert @saltyfilmfolks , how cool! Post up a pic of your tank or even better yet start a build thread. It's a great way to track your progress, share with others, and exchange information. Welcome to the addiction!

 

[Riley Pasha]

I think our members have you on track now. Nothing else to add except...

Welcome to Reef2Reef! The greatest online reefing forum around. We have the nicest members and this forum is very active as you can already see. Make sure to sign up for the daily emails and create a thread if you have a question or want to share something with us. You live in the same area as our lighting expert @saltyfilmfolks , how cool! Post up a pic of your tank or even better yet start a build thread. It's a great way to track your progress, share with others, and exchange information. Welcome to the addiction!

Thx <3

 

[Phil Cusimano]

Hi, Don't panic or be angry with the lfs. Although not the ideal way to do things, your not doomed. lol Do a search here in R2R, about live rock cycling, and do a little reading.

Okay I agree with the don't panic. But IMHO people should be angry at deceptive or miss leading information by LFS, I believe it to unconscionable to not give proper information to a new person starting out in the marine aquarium hobby. The good news is that the fish stand a good chance of surviving with a vigilant eye on the cycling and testing water parameters. The fact the clownfish are hardy goes along way. Sorry folks it's just a pet peeve of mine when it comes to a poor staffed or managed LFS.

 

[Phil Cusimano]

I can't express the anger I am in right now....the people at my lfs basically told me to leave my tank for 3 weeks before adding fish with live rock. They told me absolutely nothing about the Nitrogen Cycle. After reading more and more on these forums I have learned about the Nitrogen Cycle and the importance of ghost feeding and/or dosing ammonia to trigger the cycle creating the essential bacteria to break down the ammonia into Nitrite which then becomes Nitrate due to the salt in the tank which can be taken out via water changes. I know everything about cycling my tank now and am so mad at myself for simply listening to the people at my lfs telling me all I needed to do is leave my tank for 3 weeks (I left it while on vacation for 2 weeks).

So here is the situation...after telling them I had done as they had said and let my tank sit for 3 weeks they said I could add fish...so thats what I did. I added 2 clownfish and a cleaner shrimp as well as 6 hermit crabs. So now they are in the tank that has not been cycled :/ and here I am 2 days later learning everything about it.

I have been advised by people on reddit to buy some tank cycling bacteria asap which I intend to do as well as 12% water changes every other day and checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph every day. ATM, ammonia seems to be at 0-0.25, nitrite at 0, nitrate at around 10 ppm and pH at a low 7.4 (hopefully this goes up with my water change). When I added the fish the pH was at around 8, not sure why it dropped so much

With this plan of attack do you think my fish are still doomed? or do they have a chance? I get attached to stuff so easily so this sucks . At bare minimum, if my fish die, I will know 100% why and will not repeat my mistakes...I will also do a ton more research and preparation before ever adding fish again (talking multiple months). I am so sad rn....I wish the lfs people would at least educate me about this when I told them this is my first tank.......I so hope Simon and Garfunkel make it through . Is it possible to keep fish through a cycle? and what would you recommend I do given my circumstances?

IN CASE YOU WANT A PICTURE OF MY MOST RECENT WATER TEST (THIS IS BEFORE THE WATER CHANGE I AM PREPPING RN): http://imgur.com/a/KjaHA

Sorry that you had to experience some bad advice starting out in our hobby! Here what I recommend, not much different than most of the advice give here. buy an ammonia monitoring badge, make sure you have test kits nitrite, nitrate etc. small water changes, the good news is that you have live rock in the tank, and clownfish are very hardy beginner fish. Just monitoring the water parameters. Stick with Reef2Reef, everyone here helps each other out on every topic related to this hobby. It's a great resource for doing all sorts of research ranging from information on fish species, to equipment and everything in between such as fish diseases and how about going on to treating them. Happy to have you as part of R2R! Good Luck, and for God's sake don't let one bad experience with a LFS sour you! We all make mistakes from being give bad advice, and do reseach after the horse is out of the barn! FWIW!

 

[bairdimusprime]

i see a lot of replies here. due to changes in work my time is limited so i cannot read them all.
in short, dont be angry at the LFS. things like this happen. unfortunately your cycle will be a little different from how you wanted it.
keep up on water changes a little more frequently than you would like, and get an ammonia monitor for the tank.
within a few weeks everything should be fine. if you take care of your tank with half of the passion in your opening post, things should be just fine

best of luck

 

[Vahanyos]

Yes. Although I need to pick up some prime, don't have that yet.

I am running a very basic set up - and once your tank is cycled completely your parameters keep them self stable with old husbandry. I feed very little, monitor it and stop feeding once you see the fish spitting food back out.

You're going to have out of whack ratings until your tank is fully cycled. I wouldn't suggest adding anything extra just yet. Be patient and tough it out, high ammonia will go away. As long as you don't have any dead things sitting in the tank, you'll hVe to remove any dead fish or inverts right away.

I use powerheads, heater, and a internal filter for some media. No sump or skimmer. Don't need one yet I guess. Just keep it minimal for now you don't need to invest in anything but time!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Good Morning San Diego!!!! Its a pretty darned cool bunch of folks here on R2R right!

, so for the time being I have to use tap + conditioner.

Yea dont do that. Id rather you come get some rodi from me. I made 20g yesterday, bring a bucket. We have extremely high chloramines in our water. I lost fresh water fish for about 18 months before I found out exactly how bad it was. I had a betta live close to 5 years in Utah and couldn't keep a gold fish for three months here. You wont get coral to grow in our tap water.
Depending on where you live I can tell you who actually has decent water for sale. We also have free seawater in La Jolla near the scripps Pier. I've been using it from the start of my reefing. For some reason it always is the correct salinity

As far as mixing temps, just leave it in the house overnight.

Yes. Although I need to pick up some prime, don't have that yet.

where are ya, I have some and can let you know where to get some for a decent price.

I did sumpless Hob style for many years. if you can post a pic I can tell ya if its too much or too little stuff.

 

[jenreefer]

true. When you do water changes do you not have to have your mixing water at the same temp as the water in the tank? I thought this was necessary because otherwise it would spook the fish? Also people on reddit told me to buy another heater for this reason...Also does the salt not have to be 100% mixed for like 3 hrs with an electronic or is just enough to be clear fine?

I always match the water change water to the tank water with temp and specific gravity. These are the two most important things to keep stress on fish to a minimum. Ph is important, but not as much as the other two. So yes, match tank parameters before changing out the water. As far as fish breathing rapidly, that is a perspective. If these are your first fish, you may not be familiar with normal versus abnormal.
Make sure fish are eating and that you are feeding them well. Make sure you are not stressing fish at this point. Keep light low and water parameters stable as much as possible.
Get some live bacteria in a bottle into the tank as soon as possible.

The good news is that clowns are one of the hardier fishes that you could have put in there.

Good luck

 

[domination2580]

the one test that was off simply spilled after measuring it but I will make sure to measure it after my water change I will do before I go to sleep. My water is about 80 degrees rn so perfect. Ill go mix in the salt in a bit and the water conditioner and retest after my wc. Is it true that 1/2 cup per gallon will yield a 1.025 gravity? if so thats what I am aiming for .

The ammonia was over the line significantly though. I still would test again sheet the water change.

 

[Riley Pasha]

The ammonia was over the line significantly though. I still would test again sheet the water change.

The water was at the line but when the ammonia tester was added, the thing went above the line.

 

[DLHDesign]

would something like this be ok? https://www.amazon.com/SC-Aquariums...3&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=protein+skimmer&psc=1.

Not sure this was answered; that is a skimmer. It would likely work well enough for gas exchange, at the least.
The other primary thing that skimmers do is extract proteins and such from the tank before they have a chance to break down into bad stuff (ammonia, etc.). They do this by creating a "happy place" for protein to gather (eg: bubbles) and then expel those bubbles from the tank - thus removing the proteins along with them. You then clean out the catch cup every so often (+/- once per week) to complete the removal of the proteins from the system. If you're doing it right, the stuff you throw out will be smelly (think the aquarium equivalent of a midden heap).
It's this second part that really seems to determine the quality of a skimmer. The more efficient it is at gunk removal, the (arguably) better the skimmer rating. The kicker is; this is going to vary in every tank. A bunch of factors come into play - depth of water, rate of feeding, bio-load in the tank, tank age, ... Lots of factors. I doubt that there will ever be a crowned "King of Skimmers" for this reason, though I'm sure that there are some makes and models that could be put forth. Also; things such as footprint, energy use (eg; pump quality), and cost are all valid factors in skimmer selection.

All of that may be moot for you, however, in terms of the linked model. The thing with most skimmers is that they go in the sump. They basically work by shooting water through a bunch of holes to create the bubbles (there's a lot more than that, but that's the most basic explanation) and that's a lot easier to do when it's sitting in a tank of water. They do make HOB ("hang on back") skimmers if you are so inclined.

I wish I knew how sumps worked :/ wouldn't have 90 things hanging off my tank. Idk why they seem so complicated to me for some reason, maybe after research I can get it for my next tank.

A sump is an extension of your main tank (often called the "display tank" or "DT") that's meant to be functional rather than (or sometimes in addition to) beautiful. The sump and DT are a closed looped system - meaning that the water goes from the DT, into the sump, and back into the DT. For that reason, it's hard to say where a sump "starts", but generally that's where the water comes out of the DT and enters the sump. There are as many setups as there are tanks out there, but in general the sump is located below the DT. So the water drains out of the DT into the sump. It will pass through some kind of system to control the rate of drain (gate valve, usually) into the sump tank. The sump will often contain various "mechanical filtration" - two or more filter socks being the most common start, but the skimmer fits into this category as well. There are often also areas of "biological filtration" - things like refugiums, algae scrubbers, and other areas where bacteria and life can grow. The sump will also contain the heaters and, when needed, a connection into a chiller. Probes of all sorts are placed in the sump, along with the drip lines from dosing pumps. A common feature is some kind of ATO ("auto top-off") that would contain RO/DI water (not salt) and a way to keep the sump (and thus the DT) at a constant water level (offsetting evaporation). Finally, the sump will incorporate a return pump to get the water from the sump tank back into the DT. This pump will help to create flow in the DT, but is often augmented in reef systems with one or more powerheads in the DT itself. The pump can also be connected to a manifold (pipe with a bunch of T's and some valves) in order to run other types of contraptions - carbon, GFO, CO2 scrubbers, etc., etc. - all the gadgets and gizmos that we seemingly love to spend our money on... ;-) Finally; another advantage to having a sump is that it increases the volume of water involved in the system. This is generally good as more water means more time to react to changes that could be harmful.

Pretty much all of that CAN be done without a sump, of course. It just results in a lot of devices and boxes hanging off the back (and sometimes sides) of the DT. Which, some people feel, detracts from the visual beauty of the tank's contents. But some people don't feel that way and are perfectly happy to have a sump-less tank. Personally, as long as you've got a tank and take care of it, I call that a win!

 

[Riley Pasha]

Not sure this was answered; that is a skimmer. It would likely work well enough for gas exchange, at the least.
The other primary thing that skimmers do is extract proteins and such from the tank before they have a chance to break down into bad stuff (ammonia, etc.). They do this by creating a "happy place" for protein to gather (eg: bubbles) and then expel those bubbles from the tank - thus removing the proteins along with them. You then clean out the catch cup every so often (+/- once per week) to complete the removal of the proteins from the system. If you're doing it right, the stuff you throw out will be smelly (think the aquarium equivalent of a midden heap).
It's this second part that really seems to determine the quality of a skimmer. The more efficient it is at gunk removal, the (arguably) better the skimmer rating. The kicker is; this is going to vary in every tank. A bunch of factors come into play - depth of water, rate of feeding, bio-load in the tank, tank age, ... Lots of factors. I doubt that there will ever be a crowned "King of Skimmers" for this reason, though I'm sure that there are some makes and models that could be put forth. Also; things such as footprint, energy use (eg; pump quality), and cost are all valid factors in skimmer selection.

All of that may be moot for you, however, in terms of the linked model. The thing with most skimmers is that they go in the sump. They basically work by shooting water through a bunch of holes to create the bubbles (there's a lot more than that, but that's the most basic explanation) and that's a lot easier to do when it's sitting in a tank of water. They do make HOB ("hang on back") skimmers if you are so inclined.


A sump is an extension of your main tank (often called the "display tank" or "DT") that's meant to be functional rather than (or sometimes in addition to) beautiful. The sump and DT are a closed looped system - meaning that the water goes from the DT, into the sump, and back into the DT. For that reason, it's hard to say where a sump "starts", but generally that's where the water comes out of the DT and enters the sump. There are as many setups as there are tanks out there, but in general the sump is located below the DT. So the water drains out of the DT into the sump. It will pass through some kind of system to control the rate of drain (gate valve, usually) into the sump tank. The sump will often contain various "mechanical filtration" - two or more filter socks being the most common start, but the skimmer fits into this category as well. There are often also areas of "biological filtration" - things like refugiums, algae scrubbers, and other areas where bacteria and life can grow. The sump will also contain the heaters and, when needed, a connection into a chiller. Probes of all sorts are placed in the sump, along with the drip lines from dosing pumps. A common feature is some kind of ATO ("auto top-off") that would contain RO/DI water (not salt) and a way to keep the sump (and thus the DT) at a constant water level (offsetting evaporation). Finally, the sump will incorporate a return pump to get the water from the sump tank back into the DT. This pump will help to create flow in the DT, but is often augmented in reef systems with one or more powerheads in the DT itself. The pump can also be connected to a manifold (pipe with a bunch of T's and some valves) in order to run other types of contraptions - carbon, GFO, CO2 scrubbers, etc., etc. - all the gadgets and gizmos that we seemingly love to spend our money on... ;-) Finally; another advantage to having a sump is that it increases the volume of water involved in the system. This is generally good as more water means more time to react to changes that could be harmful.

Pretty much all of that CAN be done without a sump, of course. It just results in a lot of devices and boxes hanging off the back (and sometimes sides) of the DT. Which, some people feel, detracts from the visual beauty of the tank's contents. But some people don't feel that way and are perfectly happy to have a sump-less tank. Personally, as long as you've got a tank and take care of it, I call that a win!

So basically the water would go from the DT, then through the gate valve and into a few filter socks then into a Refugium, then into the algae scrubbers then through the drip lines and dosing pumps then back into the DT?

The drip lines and dosing pumps confuse me, also I don't understand auto top offs. Do they just measure salinity then add just RO water without salt to keep it constant? If the water becomes less salty will it also be able to add more salt water?

Does the water stay inside one pipe that goes through the different stages of the sump then back to the DT or how does it transfer from different areas of the sump?

Also would the sump contain a skimmer and where would you put the heater? Which stage of the sump?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So basically the water would go from the DT, then through the gate valve and into a few filter socks then into a Refugium, then into the algae scrubbers then through the drip lines and dosing pumps then back into the DT?

The drip lines and dosing pumps confuse me, also I don't understand auto top offs. Do they just measure salinity then add just RO water without salt to keep it constant? If the water becomes less salty will it also be able to add more salt water?

Does the water stay inside one pipe that goes through the different stages of the sump then back to the DT or how does it transfer from different areas of the sump?

Also would the sump contain a skimmer and where would you put the heater? Which stage of the sump?

https://www.google.com/search?q=ree...VpilQKHRhAD4UQsAQIGw#tbm=isch&q=aquarium+sump

http://www.melevsreef.com/node/710

 

[Riley Pasha]

https://www.google.com/search?q=ree...VpilQKHRhAD4UQsAQIGw#tbm=isch&q=aquarium+sump

http://www.melevsreef.com/node/710

How does the bubbles from the skimmer enter the tank if it would just go straight up?

 

[Riley Pasha]

How does the bubbles from the skimmer enter the tank if it would just go straight up?

Referring to this picture: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6f/d8/0a/6fd80a4e576baf9d2f40981f9d18dcbe.jpg

The bubbles would go straight up and not in the tank right? Or would it go into the stream of the water which would give the benefits to the DT.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

How does the bubbles from the skimmer enter the tank if it would just go straight up?

on a new skimmer they tend to blow around and not fully continue up the body.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Referring to this picture: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6f/d8/0a/6fd80a4e576baf9d2f40981f9d18dcbe.jpg

The bubbles would go straight up and not in the tank right? Or would it go into the stream of the water which would give the benefits to the DT.

yes they stay in the skimmer.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I currently have 2 tanks with no skimmer or sump.