The place where snails go to die.

[Beau_B]

So far, starting in October, I've lost 7 nerite, 3 trochus, 1 turbo, and 3 ninja star (astrea) snails. All would live roughly a month and then ultimately stop moving and die.

I passed it off bad luck for awhile but now I'm puzzled. The tank is/has successfully housed 100+ dwarf ceriths, 10 nassarius vibex, a skunk cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, 5 scarlet legged hermits, and a tuxedo urchin through out this time. At the start, the algae was minimal so I considered starvation, now GHA is so bad I'm doing multi-day blackout.

I was concerned about copper somehow getting in, but given the other inverts doing fine (6 months) I don't really think that's it. The hermits are 100% not the culprit; I watch the snails slowly shrivel up and die, they are not murdered. The trochus spawned and I had 100 little guys cruising around, the population is slowly dwindling to nothing.

Parameters: 1.026, 0/0/0/0.03 (probably tied up in GHA)... 78F, PH 7.8-8.0... calcium is whatever Reef Crystals mixes to. A couple LPS and zoas in the tank.

WHAT IS HAPPENING!?

 

[TriggerFinger]

You may have had too many to start with and then they started to starve out? The snail die off then causes a nutrient spike which is fueling the GHA. I don’t think they will eat “long” GHA, you will have to manually remove most of it while they finish off the rest.

 

[Beau_B]

Interesting, I've considered that...

I have a 50 gal system. Put a 20gal quick pack from reef cleaners in, and indeed, thought they starved. Since then, I re-upped in modest amounts and continue to have die off even with evident food. I have film algae on glass, and do knock back the long GHA.

The Turbo was added solo after the first round of die-off. It alone mowed down great expanses of GHA and I thought "great" until one week it just stopped moving and vacated.

Maybe starvation is still to blame for a few of them, but I'm not confident about that.

 

[Jstn]

Are they dying or is a predator getting them?

 

[Beau_B]

Dying. Shrivel up on glass or rock and fall. Slow death over a few days. The foot or whatever it’s called looks like it’s drying and bunched.

This has happened systematically, add a few, a month or so later they start dropping. The other snails (ceriths and nassirus) carry on.

There are two money cowries from this last order that appear to be hanging in, but I kinda expect them to check out.

 

[Beau_B]

So starvation or bad luck is the only explanation we can come up with... I’ll continue to be skeptical.

 

[Dan_P]

So far, starting in October, I've lost 7 nerite, 3 trochus, 1 turbo, and 3 ninja star (astrea) snails. All would live roughly a month and then ultimately stop moving and die.

I passed it off bad luck for awhile but now I'm puzzled. The tank is/has successfully housed 100+ dwarf ceriths, 10 nassarius vibex, a skunk cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, 5 scarlet legged hermits, and a tuxedo urchin through out this time. At the start, the algae was minimal so I considered starvation, now GHA is so bad I'm doing multi-day blackout.

I was concerned about copper somehow getting in, but given the other inverts doing fine (6 months) I don't really think that's it. The hermits are 100% not the culprit; I watch the snails slowly shrivel up and die, they are not murdered. The trochus spawned and I had 100 little guys cruising around, the population is slowly dwindling to nothing.

Parameters: 1.026, 0/0/0/0.03 (probably tied up in GHA)... 78F, PH 7.8-8.0... calcium is whatever Reef Crystals mixes to. A couple LPS and zoas in the tank.

WHAT IS HAPPENING!?

Avoiding snail starvation is something I am attempting to deal with. I bought 20 Mexican turbos (>1 inch) to clear a 75 gallon aquarium of hair algae. Clearly I bought too many. These beast were done in a week. Now I am feeding them sheets of dried algae. I built two holders to submerge and to keep the sheets flat. They go in when the lights are out. The sheets are consumed overnight. Considering increasing the number of feeding stations.

So, yeah, you might be overestimating the amount of food available to the snails.

 

[Beau_B]

I could be, I was going off the reef cleaners guidelines for quick packs, sizing 50% o

I see other people with much larger CUC/gallon, but of course no set rules as all tanks are different.

For algae eaters I’m down to one Trochus, 2 cowries, 6 nerites, the urchin, and however many (lots) dwarf ceriths.

GHA, ulva, and film algae are still readily available.

Oh well. Keep on experimenting. Just hate having things die.

 

[Erink]

Maybe it's something from where you are buying them? Just a thought...

 

[Beau_B]

Maybe it's something from where you are buying them? Just a thought...

All but the Turbo came from reef cleaners, fairly certain that isn’t the issue, but good thought. Indeed the Florida ceriths have yet to survive the travel, but others get about a month. The ninja stars from the last order kicked it the fastest. First one was a few days, the next only about a week later.

It would make more sense if all the snails died, but this business of just certain types is confusing.

 

[Beau_B]

Just as an update: remaining cowrie, ninja star, and Florida ceriths... Dead.

Nerites, urchin, dwarf ceriths, cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, hermits... All fine.

Turbo looking questionable.

Nitrate undetectable. Hanna copper test .04, which I understand the tester doesn't have much accuracy at that level.

Going to run some poly filter to be certain.

GHA rages on. Cyano has joined the party this past week too. We're having fun now.

 

[Scottmac]

Even though I am new to the hobby of keeping marine aquariums, I have kept freshwater tanks for decades and have experienced keeping lots of different snails.

Apart from supplements of algae pellets to ensure they have sufficient food, I would consider that If only the molluscs in your tank are being affected, then it points to something that molluscs in particular are sensitive too.

My guess would be varying salt levels as I understand marine molluscs are particularly sensitive to rises and falls in salinity. Or perhaps something in the substrate. I think molluscs parasites tend to be species-specific so that would be an unlikely cause of deaths in many different snail types.

What's your substrate and have you tried replacing it?

Scott

 

[Beau_B]

That's some interesting info. Thanks for joining in.

It's aragonite. New with the tank last fall. The dwarf ceriths, nerites, and nassarius are all fine and have been in there for months. Those are molluscs, no? I will confess I don't know the finer differences species to species regarding their care but I'm under the belief it's all in the same realm.

Salinity is stable, running with ATO and I've repeatedly calibrated refractometer with 35ppm fluid really don't think that's it.

Starvation keeps coming up, but I'm not convinced. There is film algae on the glass, and every rock has some GHA which I keep brushed down so it's not flowing and inedible.

I put some dried sheet algae rubber banded to rubble in the tank and it wasn't eaten.

 

[Scottmac]

Can you list the types of snails that have died pls? (sorry if it's already been stated, my eye sight isn't that great picking out of paragraphs)

 

[Jstn]

Are you acclimating them? i Had a batch of 10 trocus die a few months ago while the other trocus (older) were fine. I think somewhere in the supply chain someone miss handled them. For a piece of mind I would get some snails from algae barn that are tank raised. Granted they are pricey but you know these snails have the best chance at sucess. If they make it you know its yoir smail source, if not time to look deeper into your tank. Perhaps an ICP test followed by a few large water changes.

 

[Jstn]

@AlgaeBarn have you guys had issues like the OP described ?

also here is their trocus

Trochus Snail

Trochus Snails are great for overall aquarium cleaning. They eat green film algae and diatoms. See below for more information.

www.algaebarn.com

 

[Beau_B]

Almost exclusively from reefcleaners (2x 20 gallon quick crews plus some other add-ons... October & May or April) acclimated per his instructions (temp & drop). Deaths are not short-term, they take weeks, and die slowly. Are not murdered.

Dead:

Type xquantity (life span in tank)

Trochus x5 (1-2 months)
Florida Cerith x4 (many others, but were DOA)
Nerites x8 (1-3months, think they starved back in November)
Mexican Turbo x1 (1 month life, ate a lot of GHA)
Money Cowrie x2 (3 wks & 6wks)
Ninja Star Astrea x3 (2wks & 5 wks)


Alive:

Nerite x8 about 2 mo old- first batch I got 8mo ago starved I think
Nassarius x10 varies from 2-8mo old
Dwarf Ceriths x100s 8mo
Mexican Turbo x1 about a month so far and shrivels up for days.

The Trochus spawned before dying and I had hundreds of little guys. Still have 50+ I think but might be dwindling. They are 2mm in diameter by my estimate.

 

[Beau_B]

The trochus and turbos came from LFS.

I don't think this is a supply issue. Something in the tank.

 

[Jstn]

Have you done an ICP to rule out heavy metals or contaminates? It wont find organics such as toxins but carbon should pull those out, after that it would have to be disease or something biological IMO.

 

[Scottmac]

Thanks for the list, I was hoping to see a clear difference between the natural behaviour of the species that are dying and those that aren't. But I can't see a pattern unfortunately, maybe someone else here can see one. It may be that the species that are alive are more resistant to whatever is going on in your tank.

My hunch is it's the substrate, as if it was another area of your tank your fish and corals would be affected too. Bear in mind when you are doing chemical water tests, your generally taking the water from the higher levels of the water table, not from the substrate. So any issues under the substrate wouldn't necessarily be noticed by the usual testing, unless you have very good lower circulation.

I suggest trying a partial substrate change and clean, as it may have become contaminated somehow, see if that helps. If you decide to try this, when you dig up the substrate see if there are any black areas of sand. Black areas would suggest anaerobic bacteria and presence of heavy metals producing hydrogen sulphide which would have a greater impact on lower level molluscs which tend to spend most of their time on/in the substrate.

Its not an issue i've experienced personally yet (fingers crossed) as all the freshwater tanks I have had I always ensure they are fitted with UG filters which constantly aerate the substrate. But I have heard it can be an issue in marine tanks where substrate aeration can be a problem.

I may be totally wrong but that's my hunch.

Good luck getting to the bottom of it.

Scott

[Edit] just did a little research on peroxide poisoning of molluscs, and it seems its usually a risk if your sand bed is too deep (smells of rotten eggs). Here is a pic that explains the issue which may be a possible reason for your problems: