The SPS Q&A Thread.

[soccerbag]

Looks like you've got a decent setup going there mbattles. One thing I see is that you are dosing aminos once per week. As long as there is hair algae and cyano, I would stop dosing the amino's as it's just adding nutrients to feed the algae you want to get rid of. Also, if you have a LFS, I would take a water sample by and have them test your PO4 with a Hanna meter to get a "true" reading (there can be lots of room for error on home test kits). You may have more nutrients than you think and the amino's would not be the thing to add until that is gone.

Sfiligoi's are wonderful fixtures. I have the 12x54w Stealth and love it. They are built like tanks and you will love it! You are on the right track....SPS takes a lot of patience. It sounds like your parameters are in line for the most part...just be diligent in your water changes and keep you parameters stable and you will be able to grow whatever you want to under that new, sexy fixture you ordered...: )

 

[doug864]

I would like to venture into sps for the tank i'm currently building. It seems like alk is one of the main issues for success. A lot of you say alk stability is key but there is a pretty big range from 7 to 12 dhk in a lot of tanks. What dictates the level at which you personally keep it at? I have seen great tanks in all of that range low to high. Also when you say stable what are the tolerances? Is plus or minus .5 enough , more or less?
Thanks,
Doug

 

[soccerbag]

You are right Doug. There are great looking SPS tanks that run at 7 and others that run great at 12dkh. The key is stability (as you stated). SPS cannot stand alk swings. Even .5 swings on a regular basis may be enough to cause RTN (at worst) or stunted growth (at best). The best way to control alk is either setup a Ca reactor (that you can keep dialed in) or dose two part with an automated doser. You can dose manually but a doser will ensure that the dose is spread out throughout the day (preventing "spikes"). If your alk went from 8.0 to 7.5 in a matter of 3-4 days, your SPS likely would not be affected. If if dropped that much in one day, you would likely have some issues on your hands.

Different salt mixes mix to a different alk level. Since stability is key, regular water changes with the same salt and keeping that alk stable is the biggest thing. Of course, your other parameters will need to be in order as well:

NO3 - minimal
PO4 - 0
Ca - 425+
Mg - 1350+
pH - 8.0 (around there)
Salinity - 1.025 - 1.026

Good lighting and a solid skimmer will help in you adventure into SPS as well. If you can post some more info on your future setup, I'm sure we can help recommend some things to get you on your way. Bottom line, find an acceptable alk level and keep it there! : )

 

[doug864]

I'm currently dosing 2 part with a profilux doser which is awesome. What is the second most important ? And what is the swing amounts for the rest of the parameters?
Thanks,
Doug

 

[soccerbag]

PO4 is another big factor. Too much and it will stunt your growth. Can also cause RTN if too high...you must have a way to export nutrients (good skimmer, regular water changes, or possible GFO or Vodka dosing). If you have a 3rd doser on your Profilux, you can use that for Mag as well. Mag must be stable as well as it has a direct effect on Alk and Ca levels.

 

[Oiseau Reefer]

Hi, I'm new to this site and relatively new at reefing. We have a 120g tank, set up since Nov. 09. Currently we have 3 175w MH, but are switching to LED/T5 combo as we have had poor color and growth overall. We have been having the worst time with SPS! Are chemistry is in line, at least with our test kits (Alk 8.0, ph 8.1-8.2, salinity 1.023, temp 77.2, nitrates 0 and Ca 450) but most of the frags we have end up RTN or STN after a week to several months. It all seems so variable. As soon as a show a sigh of relief thinking we've made it, it starts receding at the base. I have several right now that have lost tissue, but still have PE on the remaining tissue! This has happened to our birdsnest and pocillopora as well as the acro's, so I don't think it is a parasite. Any help/advice would be much appreciated. I am almost at the point of throwing in the towel. But, I am already addicted!

Hey also what is your flow like because if you don't have a large amount of indirect current around the bases of your corals that will cause RTN. Quickly!

 

[ryanjiang]

Great work guys! I have few questions:

1) I heard AA is basically NO3, is it true?
2) I often heard SPS will starve if NO3 is too low, does SPS need certain level of NO3 in water? or because they can not get as much food as in ocean therefore become dependent on NO3 in aquarium?
3) How about PO4? Only bad things such as HA/Cayno etc in tank need PO4? Level is always the lower the better?
Thanks in advance!

 

[soccerbag]

Great work guys! I have few questions:

1) I heard AA is basically NO3, is it true?
2) I often heard SPS will starve if NO3 is too low, does SPS need certain level of NO3 in water? or because they can not get as much food as in ocean therefore become dependent on NO3 in aquarium?
3) How about PO4? Only bad things such as HA/Cayno etc in tank need PO4? Level is always the lower the better?
Thanks in advance!

AA's will add nutrients to the water. That's why you hear of folks who run a ULNS via vodka / MB7 dosing using it daily to add nutrients to the water. You are correct that zero NO3 and PO4 will starve SPS. There must be nutrients in the water column for the SPS to consume. That is typically done by feeding the fish more (fish poo being the extra nutrients) or dosing AA's to raise the NO3 and PO4. I, personally, keep my NO3 at 2.5 - 5 and my SPS are very happy with that level. Others run NO3 at 25 and experience great color as well. There is a fairly wide range of "acceptable" levels. I believe most choose to run the NO3 as low as they can and still have the color they desire in the SPS corals.

Higher PO4 levels will help to develop / feed nuisance algae. SPS corals will not do well at all high PO4 levels. In fact, SPS will die if the levels get too high. You really don't want your PO4 levels to exceed .03. Any higher will stunt growth. And unfortunately, when you stunt the growth of SPS, it can take months for growth to "kickstart" again. A zero phosphate reading is a good goal to have but is very hard without proper equipment or vodka dosing (this can include an oversized skimmer, prodibio, zeovit, vodka, gfo, etc). But you are correct in your statement above...the lower the PO4 level, the better.

 

[mbattles22]

Started out with 2 Hydor 4 controllables, recently added 2 more with the thought that we were flow deficient. Should have enough flow, but are still playing around with direction and wave programs right now. We are planning on taking some tank water to our LFS tomorrow to make sure our test kits just aren't out of wack. Meanwhile, our Acros, birdsnest and pocilloporas are still receding from their base. It is killing me to watch....I don't know how to stop it! We also have a branching red cyphastrea that is losing tissue from one of its branches! This was supposed to be easier to care for. Arghhhhhh....

 

[soccerbag]

Please post what your LFS says tomorrow (have them test everything - including your salinity). I have a feeling that your PO4 levels are high and that is causing major stress on your SPS. If they continue to receed, your best bet is to frag off a healthy portion and hope that piece makes it.

 

[mbattles22]

Please post what your LFS says tomorrow (have them test everything - including your salinity). I have a feeling that your PO4 levels are high and that is causing major stress on your SPS. If they continue to receed, your best bet is to frag off a healthy portion and hope that piece makes it.

Will let you know. Almost hoping that we will find something off...at least then we can start fixing the problem! Thanks for the advice, really need it right now.

 

[soccerbag]

we can start fixing the problem! Thanks for the advice, really need it right now.

1smile1

 

[mbattles22]

Please post what your LFS says tomorrow (have them test everything - including your salinity). I have a feeling that your PO4 levels are high and that is causing major stress on your SPS. If they continue to receed, your best bet is to frag off a healthy portion and hope that piece makes it.

Craig :angel:,
Just got back from the LFS, this was their readings: salinity -1.020, NO2-0, NO3-<5ppm, ammonia-0, Ca+-450, alk-9.9, Phos-0, Mg-1230. Anything there that can be causing all of our RTN/STN? Lost two more frags this am. Our LPS, zoas, and anemones are doing fine (so far). I looked at your website and all I can say is AMAZING!! You have a green thumb in reefkeeping. I wish we lived in Va, so we could learn from you. I know this is an SPS thread, but if you can offer advice on the proper way to acclimate coral (we are getting some new coral in on Wed. I know this isn't the best time, but its already been ordered and there is nothing I can do about it now! We have zoas, SPS :cry:and chalices coming!) and on keeping chalices happy (we have a 40-50% success rate with chalices) I would really appreciate it. Your chalice collection is to die for! We haven't been able to keep enough of our chalices alive to start investing in the higher priced ones.:squigglemouth:
Thanks Again,
Michele

 

[110reef]

Salinity seems low to me. I run mine around 1.025, but certainly it should be above 1.022.

 

[soccerbag]

Michele,

Good post - very thorough and that's good! : ) A few things I notice right off hand are salinity and Mag. SPS prefer a salinity of 1.024 - 1.026. There are some that run it lower but that is a good rule of thumb. This would not be something to change drastically as it will affect everything in your tank. You could raise it little by little with weekly / bi-weekly water changes. Do you mix your own saltwater or is this premixed from your LFS? If it's coming from your LFS, I would be curious at to why they mix to 1.020?

Also, your Mag is a bit low. Chalices and SPS prefer a higher Mag rate. While yours isn't completely out of whack, I would raise this up to 1350+. You can do this over the course of a week as well. Are you dosing 2-part? Can't remember....as long as you don't raise levels by more than 100ppm per day, you are fine. You could get levels up fairly quickly. Lower Mag can have a direct affect on Ca and Alk. And chalices definitely like a higher Mag. I keep mine around 1500 now. This helps with bryopsis outbreaks and everything seems happier. Just my experience...

All other parameters look good. As for acclimation, here is what is I do....

SPS
Float bags in sump to temp acclimate for 30 minutes. From there I treat very similar to fish. Open bag and either drip acclimate or pour small amounts of tank water into bag every 5-6 minutes until bag is full. Empty bag half was and repeat steps again. This helps the SPS acclimate to the alk / Ca / pH levels in your tank without being too shocked. Once bag is full for second time, I take the SPS and dip it in Revive (Two Little Fishies makes this product - Tropic Marin Coral Cure works well too). I mix up a gallon or two of tank water and the Revive, dip the SPS and blast it with a MJ1200. This helps ensure that any pests that may have hitchhiked on the coral do not make it into the tank. Ideally, we would all have QT tanks so we could monitor each piece of SPS before introducing it into the display tank. However, that's not always feasible so the dipping is a KEY part of acclimation. After dipping, I place the SPS on the bottom of the tank. I allow it to acclimate to lighting as well. Eventually, moving it up bit by bit until it finds it's "happy place".

Chalices
Chalices are much easier to acclimate IMO. I temp acclimate just as I do SPS (30 minutes). I do drip acclimate for a bit but not as long as SPS. I do dip chalices as they can stress out very easily from shipping. I mix tank water and Revive (TMPCC or Lugol's will work too) and dip and swirl gently for a few minutes. I do not blast chalices with a powerhead as they tissue would likely fly off : ). After dipping, I like to place new chalices in low lighting (along the edge of the tank, under a ledge, under a frag rack, etc) for a week or so. Then I move it out into light on the bottom of the tank. Most chalices prefer lower lighting and less flow.

Bottom line, I think you should get your salinity up to more normal levels. Your shipments are likely coming in from water with a much high salinity so you are probably shocking them right off the bat. Do you have a friend that may be able to babysit your new shipments until your levels are more stable? I would hate to see you lose some new livestock. I would see if the vendor or shipper of your new corals can hold off for a week or so for you. Chalices are much easier to keep than SPS. You levels are good. Just tweak the salinity (SLOWLY) and adjust your Mag a bit and you should be good to go.

What kind of salt are you using for water changes? How often are you doing them and what are you using for topoff?

Thanks for the comments on the site btw. : )

 

[110reef]

Craig -

Great points in your post. I would also add that watch your cal and alk levels when you raise the mag - mag can and will affect the equilibrium ratios of cal and alk in the system.

 

[mbattles22]

Michele,

Good post - very thorough and that's good! : ) A few things I notice right off hand are salinity and Mag. SPS prefer a salinity of 1.024 - 1.026. There are some that run it lower but that is a good rule of thumb. This would not be something to change drastically as it will affect everything in your tank. You could raise it little by little with weekly / bi-weekly water changes. Do you mix your own saltwater or is this premixed from your LFS? If it's coming from your LFS, I would be curious at to why they mix to 1.020?

Also, your Mag is a bit low. Chalices and SPS prefer a higher Mag rate. While yours isn't completely out of whack, I would raise this up to 1350+. You can do this over the course of a week as well. Are you dosing 2-part? Can't remember....as long as you don't raise levels by more than 100ppm per day, you are fine. You could get levels up fairly quickly. Lower Mag can have a direct affect on Ca and Alk. And chalices definitely like a higher Mag. I keep mine around 1500 now. This helps with bryopsis outbreaks and everything seems happier. Just my experience...

All other parameters look good. As for acclimation, here is what is I do....

SPS
Float bags in sump to temp acclimate for 30 minutes. From there I treat very similar to fish. Open bag and either drip acclimate or pour small amounts of tank water into bag every 5-6 minutes until bag is full. Empty bag half was and repeat steps again. This helps the SPS acclimate to the alk / Ca / pH levels in your tank without being too shocked. Once bag is full for second time, I take the SPS and dip it in Revive (Two Little Fishies makes this product - Tropic Marin Coral Cure works well too). I mix up a gallon or two of tank water and the Revive, dip the SPS and blast it with a MJ1200. This helps ensure that any pests that may have hitchhiked on the coral do not make it into the tank. Ideally, we would all have QT tanks so we could monitor each piece of SPS before introducing it into the display tank. However, that's not always feasible so the dipping is a KEY part of acclimation. After dipping, I place the SPS on the bottom of the tank. I allow it to acclimate to lighting as well. Eventually, moving it up bit by bit until it finds it's "happy place".

Chalices
Chalices are much easier to acclimate IMO. I temp acclimate just as I do SPS (30 minutes). I do drip acclimate for a bit but not as long as SPS. I do dip chalices as they can stress out very easily from shipping. I mix tank water and Revive (TMPCC or Lugol's will work too) and dip and swirl gently for a few minutes. I do not blast chalices with a powerhead as they tissue would likely fly off : ). After dipping, I like to place new chalices in low lighting (along the edge of the tank, under a ledge, under a frag rack, etc) for a week or so. Then I move it out into light on the bottom of the tank. Most chalices prefer lower lighting and less flow.

Bottom line, I think you should get your salinity up to more normal levels. Your shipments are likely coming in from water with a much high salinity so you are probably shocking them right off the bat. Do you have a friend that may be able to babysit your new shipments until your levels are more stable? I would hate to see you lose some new livestock. I would see if the vendor or shipper of your new corals can hold off for a week or so for you. Chalices are much easier to keep than SPS. You levels are good. Just tweak the salinity (SLOWLY) and adjust your Mag a bit and you should be good to go.

What kind of salt are you using for water changes? How often are you doing them and what are you using for topoff?

Thanks for the comments on the site btw. : )

Thanks Craig and Ken for your advice and input. Unfortunately we don't have any "reef keeping" friends who can hold our coral for us:sad:. We will have to take our chances. Out of all the loss we have had we have three milli's and one nasuto (sp?) that have been doing well! Maybe they are hardier than the rest for some reason.? We use Oceanic salt and my husband does a 10% water change weekly, using RO/DI we make ourselves. Top offs are with a Tunze auto top off with RO/DI made from our unit. Have been biweekly dosing Kent Marine Essential Elements even though we haven't been checking Mg/Sr etc. The salinity when we check it at home has been running 1.024 - 1.025, so I don't really understand the discrepancy. Adam even took some of the LFS RO/DI water home to check the zero on our refractometer and it was zero even though our refractometer reads 1.025 for our water today, not the 1.020 that they read today. Maybe it's their refractometer ...??? Thinking about going to another LFS tomorrow for a "second opinion"...LOL. Thinking that it is shifts in alk that is causing much of our problem. Lack of stability. We just purchased a two part Ca/alk dosing system, and getting a controller for when the new lights come in. Hoping this will help us stabilize everything and make everything HAPPY:bigsmile: Coral, like women, are so hard to please!! We really like our stability!
Michele

 

[soccerbag]

Alk swings can be very detrimental as stated above. Once you get the 2-part going with the dosers, it will be much easier to dial in your alk and Ca to keep things stable. If you have a few SPS that are doing well, then just make sure to acclimate the new ones (SPS) properly, provide plenty of light and flow, and get that alk dialed in and stable. Keep us posted and feel free to post any other questions you have here. It's a good learning experience for anyone looking to get into SPS. While it is frustrating right now, once you get things dialed in and see them grow, it will be be SO rewarding. :bigsmile:

 

[mbattles22]

Alk swings can be very detrimental as stated above. Once you get the 2-part going with the dosers, it will be much easier to dial in your alk and Ca to keep things stable. If you have a few SPS that are doing well, then just make sure to acclimate the new ones (SPS) properly, provide plenty of light and flow, and get that alk dialed in and stable. Keep us posted and feel free to post any other questions you have here. It's a good learning experience for anyone looking to get into SPS. While it is frustrating right now, once you get things dialed in and see them grow, it will be be SO rewarding. :bigsmile:

Will do. Thanks again! Will certainly keep you posted. Can't wait to see our coral "Thrive".:bigsmile:
Michele

 

[mbattles22]

We went to the "other" LFS in the city, they read our salinity as 1.025....similar to our reading. So I'm thinking the first LFS was off. That only leaves alk swings as the cause of all of our death and destruction. I guess there is not much else to do but wait for our two part dosing system to arrive. Do you think reef essentials is a good way to increase our Mg?
Thanks