Tide simulation for a mangrove tank

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

I bought I Waterbox Clear Mini 16 this holiday. I am tying it into a soft coral/LPS system which is about 90 gallons total. I was planning on drilling the tank and connecting it to a common sump. I am having thoughts that I don't want to drill it and was thinking of a creative way to get water from the system to the mini without drilling it. I was thinking about the biotope that the mangroves live in and about the tides. My thought was to make a tide system that would slowly add and remove water from the tank 2x per day like the tides. I thought how might I do this and came up with this solution and I would like some feedback as to if it would work and potential pitfalls that I have not thought of. My idea is to use two BRS 50ml per minute dosers on a smart wifi plug that has the ability to have timers. I would use one doser to remove water from the tank over a four hour period and add it to the sump, this would be 12 liters (approx. 3 1/4 gallons). After that the second dosing pump would add it back over the four hour period. So over a 16 hour period the tank level would rise and fall throughout the day. The eight hours at night the water level would stay the same. I don't have to worry about the water level in the skimmer chamber because it would stay stable. I dose kalkwasser daily so I don't have to worry about my salinity through evaporation. Also the ato would kick on twice during the day at high tide in the tank, low tide in the sump 2x per day and at night. I evaporate about a gallon a day on the system with a water volume of 90 gallons I don't think salinity swings should be an issue. It is a priority for me that the it is a clean look. I am using a black wire rack to hold the aquarium so everything is very open, the tank is close to the sump, so I should be able to keep the setup looking tight and clean. What are your thoughts? Is it a worthwhile endeavor or and over complicated idea and I should just drill the dang tank? I have been reefing for over 20 years so I am at the point where the unique and unusual is what tickles my toes.

 

[ThePurple12]

No suggestions from me, but I‘m interested to see what you come up with.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

So I have done some more research and another, better, option would be to use the Ecotech Versa pumps. It would also be more expensive, about double the cost, $160 vs. $300. It of course would offer a lot more precision, controllablitly and probably reliablity. I am not sure if I want to pay that much for what I am going for. Also, they are currently and have been for some time, out of stock. Anyhow I finished my DIY controller board today so here is a picture of the tank as it sits today. Next step is to add the sand, water, rock and mangrove. I currently am growing the mangroves outside in freshwater, I live in Florida so I can do that. I am trying to decide if I should start converting them to salt now, or fill the tank with freshwater and convert them in the tank. I plan on allowing 2-3 weeks to convert them from fresh to salt. What are your thoughts. Do you have any experience converting them from fresh to salt?

 

[Wolf89]

Have you tested this? pumping water out will only lower the water level in the sump, not in the display

 

[Eric R.]

Ewelch did well on converting his from FW to SW. He did it over a couple months. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/micro-mangrove-build.331951/

I haven't tried converting to SW yet, I'm still growing mine out in FW, but I'd personally do it over a 6-8 week period to be safe, not 2-3.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

Have you tested this? pumping water out will only lower the water level in the sump, not in the display

No but the tank is not connected to the sump so yes the sump water level will rise and fall opposite of the tank. I have enough margin that I can pump about 3-4 gallons back and forth without overflowing the sump even if the return shutdowns during low tide in the tank/ hightide in the sump. I would like the cycle of the tide to be close to the real tide 4 hours to low, 4 hours to high 2x per day. The eight hours at night there would be no tide.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

So I started scaping the tan tonight. I decided to make a container with pieces of rock for the mangroves. I cut up a fabric plant container to act has a dam to keep the refugium mud in place, then covered it with a top layer of sand then some more roc. I hope to remove the rock on top once everything gets settled. I will post some more pictures once it gets all cleared up. I have been growing these mangroves outside in freshwate. I filled the tank with fresh water and am going to convert it over to salt slowly. I am very excited

 

[UkiahTheTurtle]

Cool I always wanted to make A mangrove tank!!!

 

[Dark_Knightt]

Looks awesome, I've always thought of making one of these tanks one day. Whats your stocking plan for this tank? Fish, macro algae?

 

[laverda]

I would raise your mangroves out of you bed a bit more. How much do you want the tide water level to change?
I set up my mangrove to have a tide, although it is only about 1.5-2". I installed my drain bulkhead to high to make it any more. If you want a 5" tide, install your drain bulkhead at least 5" below your high tide level.
For my drain I just use a simple slip 90 degree fitting in the bulkhead with a length of PVC to a bit below your max water level. To get the tide effect I drill a small horizontal hole in the 90 degree fitting. Do not glue the 90 into the bulkhead, so you can experiment to get the desired tide effect. I would just use a very small conventional pump on a timer or controller. When the pump is running the tide will increase until the water level goes over the top of the overflow. When the pump shuts off the hole at the bottom of the elbow will allow the water to slowly drain to that level. You may not be able achieve 4 hour intervals. I think using dosing pumps will be prone to failure in the long run.
Here is a link to my Mangrove Lagoon for reference.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

Looks awesome, I've always thought of making one of these tanks one day. Whats your stocking plan for this tank? Fish, macro algae?

It’s going to be Florida ricordia, rock flowers and inverts. I will have a few macro algae’s as well. I want it to be a Florida keys type biotope as close as possible.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

I would raise your mangroves out of you bed a bit more. How much do you want the tide water level to change?
I set up my mangrove to have a tide, although it is only about 1.5-2". I installed my drain bulkhead to high to make it any more. If you want a 5" tide, install your drain bulkhead at least 5" below your high tide level.
For my drain I just use a simple slip 90 degree fitting in the bulkhead with a length of PVC to a bit below your max water level. To get the tide effect I drill a small horizontal hole in the 90 degree fitting. Do not glue the 90 into the bulkhead, so you can experiment to get the desired tide effect. I would just use a very small conventional pump on a timer or controller. When the pump is running the tide will increase until the water level goes over the top of the overflow. When the pump shuts off the hole at the bottom of the elbow will allow the water to slowly drain to that level. You may not be able achieve 4 hour intervals. I think using dosing pumps will be prone to failure in the long run.
Here is a link to my Mangrove Lagoon for reference.

Great idea but now that I have set it up I would need to take everything out. If I dosing pumps don’t work I will go that route. Thanks for the idea I agree that your solution would be a more cost effective solution.

 

[Dark_Knightt]

It’s going to be Florida ricordia, rock flowers and inverts. I will have a few macro algae’s as well. I want it to be a Florida keys type biotope as close as possible.

Awesome!! Im going down to the Gulf and Keys this summer, pumped to see some goliath groupers while diving.
But yeah so cool that you can replicate an EXACT ecosystem. I kinda just take fish and corals i like lol. Even though most come from the indian ocean anyways

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

This is my 4th tank, soI have several other places to have coral. I live in Florida and the idea of having a local biotope sounded good to me, plus I can get a good selection of rics and flowers down here, along with the macro.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

The tank is still a little cloudy but it is getting there.

 

[a hill]

I would raise your mangroves out of you bed a bit more. How much do you want the tide water level to change?
I set up my mangrove to have a tide, although it is only about 1.5-2". I installed my drain bulkhead to high to make it any more. If you want a 5" tide, install your drain bulkhead at least 5" below your high tide level.
For my drain I just use a simple slip 90 degree fitting in the bulkhead with a length of PVC to a bit below your max water level. To get the tide effect I drill a small horizontal hole in the 90 degree fitting. Do not glue the 90 into the bulkhead, so you can experiment to get the desired tide effect. I would just use a very small conventional pump on a timer or controller. When the pump is running the tide will increase until the water level goes over the top of the overflow. When the pump shuts off the hole at the bottom of the elbow will allow the water to slowly drain to that level. You may not be able achieve 4 hour intervals. I think using dosing pumps will be prone to failure in the long run.
Here is a link to my Mangrove Lagoon for reference.

I think this is the right way to do it. Just have an oversized sump and either use one bulkhead thats low tide then pumps for high tide to compensate for drainage, or use two bulkheads with electronic solenoid valves that you can control the flow out of. Drain restriction may be more likely to overflow the tank, so a safety third always open top bulkhead may be needed also.

Thats a lot of drilling.

It is also much easier to drain the tank, empty it, and drill it now. In the future with livestock it'll be impossible.

-Andrew

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

I think this is the right way to do it. Just have an oversized sump and either use one bulkhead thats low tide then pumps for high tide to compensate for drainage, or use two bulkheads with electronic solenoid valves that you can control the flow out of. Drain restriction may be more likely to overflow the tank, so a safety third always open top bulkhead may be needed also.

Thats a lot of drilling.

It is also much easier to drain the tank, empty it, and drill it now. In the future with livestock it'll be impossible.

-Andrew

Yeah, I don't think 3 holes in the tank would be asthestically pleasing. I am considering drilling the tank with one bulkhead and using his idea. It does seem alot simpler and cheaper. I am just trying to keep the tank looking as clean as possible with little to no visible pipes.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

Here are some pics of the tank all clear and clean. I love the look of a newly set up tank. Next step is convert the tank from freshwater to saltwater over the next 6-8 weeks. Wish me luck.

 

[Ichtha_yo Stuff]

Here is the tank all cleared up. I love the way a new tank looks, so new and clean. It has been suggested to drill it to create the tide with a small pump and I agree that would would, be the least expensive, and simplest option. The idea of taking everything out of the tank and restarting would not be that difficult now. I really like the idea of a clean looking tank and having two small clear lines coming into the tank sounds more appealing to me. I know it is going to cost more and be more complex, but in the end I think it will be worth it. So the next step is to slowly convert the water from fresh to salt. Wish me luck. FYI the two Current eflux 660’s are creating a perfect wave motion.

 

[laverda]

Looking good so far. How much is your water level changing??
I totally understand not wanting to take the tank apart. You would only need to drain it to a bit below where your bulkhead will be. Use black or gray PVC so it is less obvious. You could hide the overflow behind the mangroves.