To DIY or not DIY...

[ElussssvReefSD]

Hey folks,

So I'm trying to guesstimate how much of my new build project (see below in sig line) I should try to tackle myself, and how much I should leave to the pros.

Reefer experience-wise, the most success I've had was with a 90-gallon AIO mixed reef (monti, birdsnest, xenia, acans, mushrooms, anemone) w/ easy to medium fish (hippo tang, clowns, hawk, flame angel). I managed to maintain that tank well and not kill anything for several years before having to sell everything and move for work.

So, I understand the basics of chemistry, flow, mechanical maintenance etc. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty and am fairly handy with basic home projects and tools. However, I'm not a builder, engineer, plumber, or electrician, and I'm hesitant to take on a large build of this scale and the $$$ investment involved by myself. On the other hand, I also don't necessarily want to just pay someone to come in and do everything for me. I'm the kind of person that wants to be hands on and understand the rationale behind why "this way" is better than "that way".

Luckily, I have found and developed a good rapport with a local LFS (The Coral Corral in case you're in the Tampa Bay and want to geek out with a pretty cool group of reef-nerds, thanks to @Gernader for the suggestion!), who I think will be a really good partner in this project.

So, in your experiences and opinion, which pieces of a build like this would be worth trying DIY, and which pieces would be better left to the pros at my experience level?

Those with the personal experiences on this scale are most welcome, but everyone please feel free to let me know your opinions!

Thank you!

 

[count krunk]

Stands are easy to build. It's making them look nice that is the tricky bit.

I would recommend getting an old tank or sump and adding in your own baffles. Conversely melev makes amazing sumps as he has a CNC.

I stick to the following build mantra:

DIY: stand, canopy, sump, holes for overflow box, plumbing
Purchase: your life support systems such as skimmer, flow, heater, fail safes, controllers

I like working with wood and have a sliding miter saw and large table saw to make things easier. You can certainly build a stand with just a circular saw and a cutting guide.

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

Stands are easy to build. It's making them look nice that is the tricky bit.

I would recommend getting an old tank or sump and adding in your own baffles. Conversely melev makes amazing sumps as he has a CNC.

I stick to the following build mantra:

DIY: stand, canopy, sump, holes for overflow box, plumbing
Purchase: your life support systems such as skimmer, flow, heater, fail safes, controllers

I like working with wood and have a sliding miter saw and large table saw to make things easier. You can certainly build a stand with just a circular saw and a cutting guide.

How about design, plumbing and electrical, that's what I'm most concerned about not having the skills to implement successfully.

 

[andrewey]

Plumbing is easy- you'll be fine to do that yourself. If you're setting up dedicated circuits for the tank, I'd have an electrician tackle that, although it can be done yourself with some DIY videos. Design can be hit or miss- you can always try and design yourself and solicit free advice for the community.

For the rest, I think @count krunk nailed it in what to DIY vs. buy

 

[count krunk]

what do you mean by design? Draw out your stand beforehand, think about what you want it to accomplish. Same with sump.

If you need/want dedicated outlets/breaker, get an electrician in to get that done if you don't feel comfortable. I would DEFINITELY use an electrician if you want to get them on their own breaker.

Plumbing is quite easy, go with a bean animal drain

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

what do you mean by design? Draw out your stand beforehand, think about what you want it to accomplish. Same with sump.

If you need/want dedicated outlets/breaker, get an electrician in to get that done if you don't feel comfortable. I would DEFINITELY use an electrician if you want to get them on their own breaker.

Plumbing is quite easy, go with a bean animal drain

Oh for sure! No I'm definitely not messing with electricity. I guess I mean more things like, where should the plumbing go, which part of the sump should the skimmer go in for ease of maintenance... things like that. It would suck to come up with a design and plan, only to find out once everything is installed, that it's too far to reach the skimmer cup for example, or there's a pump that's out of reach, or forgot to account for siphon on a line and now all the tank water is on the floor...

Basically trying to avoid having any "I messed this up and now my relationship is in imminent danger" kinds of mistakes due to lack of knowledge and experience... LoL.

 

[count krunk]

Best way is to look at other build threads and get ideas from there stands and sumps. It is pretty much impossible to mess up the plumbing so bad you are dumping water on the floor.

Look at BRS's YouTube videos. Then start a build thread and outline your plan, upload a sketch or two of your stand and sump, if there are any problems a member will catch them.

You want easy access to the skimmer and the return pump as you clean those the most often. Pumps in the display are never out of reach.

You are planning a 400g+ tank? I would recommend something smaller, maybe 125-150 gallons. Still able to fit lots of livestock in them and easier and cheaper to maintain. Startup equipment would be much less as well.

 

[ramboisreal]

I think the stand should be a custom stand. Whether it’s DIY or professionally made, is up to you. But if you have the tools and skills to work with wood, I would recommend building your own. That way you an customize it to your needs and likes. I’m almost done with my stand build. I attached a photo of my current build.

When I bought my 90 gallon, the guy sold it to me with a basic stand. I still use it today. However, I am in the process of building a stand now because the current one has so many limitations. The lack of space doesn’t fit a lot of my equipment (skimmer, reactor, etc.).

A DIY sump is also a HUGE money saver and SUPER easy to build.

When I first started my tank, everything I had was DIY. The overflow, the sump, the stand, even the skimmer!

 

[AlexG]

Going DIY can be a difficult decision. Its always possible to DIY some of the project and leave other parts to professionals. I built most of my system on my own and it will teach you a lot about aquarium systems but it also requires research and planning. I cannot overstate the importance of planning out your build and thinking of all the important aspects that need consideration when you get into large aquariums. Also take your time and be patient. As far as what you can build the sky is the limit. I built my stands, aquariums, sumps, skimmer, electrical, plumbing, radiant heating system, humidity controls, overflows, light racks, canopy, tank tops, sump tops, needle wheel impellers. With big builds you can save a lot of money going the DIY route. I saved thousands building my own setup. I think if you are wanting to take on some DIY and you are unsure on your skill set then I would start with the sump, skimmer, tops, light racks.

Considerations on DIY for large displays

• Access to display and filtration
• Emergency kit/backup power
• Diversified electrical outlets on at least two breakers
• Humidity controls
• Impact of tank weight on floor
• Be prepared to have some setbacks or failures that require work to be redone
• If you build any custom parts for the make a few extras in case they break down the line

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

Best way is to look at other build threads and get ideas from there stands and sumps. It is pretty much impossible to mess up the plumbing so bad you are dumping water on the floor.

Look at BRS's YouTube videos. Then start a build thread and outline your plan, upload a sketch or two of your stand and sump, if there are any problems a member will catch them.

You want easy access to the skimmer and the return pump as you clean those the most often. Pumps in the display are never out of reach.

You are planning a 400g+ tank? I would recommend something smaller, maybe 125-150 gallons. Still able to fit lots of livestock in them and easier and cheaper to maintain. Startup equipment would be much less as well.

That's good to know about the plumbing. I do have a build thread with a couple starting sketches in my sig line...

Regarding tank size, yeah, I weighed the pros and cons, I thought long and hard about it before going for a big boy. Rest assured I have my eyes wide open and signed all the liability waivers along the way haha.

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

I think the stand should be a custom stand. Whether it’s DIY or professionally made, is up to you. But if you have the tools and skills to work with wood, I would recommend building your own. That way you an customize it to your needs and likes. I’m almost done with my stand build. I attached a photo of my current build.

When I bought my 90 gallon, the guy sold it to me with a basic stand. I still use it today. However, I am in the process of building a stand now because the current one has so many limitations. The lack of space doesn’t fit a lot of my equipment (skimmer, reactor, etc.).

A DIY sump is also a HUGE money saver and SUPER easy to build.

When I first started my tank, everything I had was DIY. The overflow, the sump, the stand, even the skimmer!

That stand looks awesome, though how did you determine that it would be weight-rated for the tank that it's supporting? Are there common formulas for that sort of thing?

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

Going DIY can be a difficult decision. Its always possible to DIY some of the project and leave other parts to professionals. I built most of my system on my own and it will teach you a lot about aquarium systems but it also requires research and planning. I cannot overstate the importance of planning out your build and thinking of all the important aspects that need consideration when you get into large aquariums. Also take your time and be patient. As far as what you can build the sky is the limit. I built my stands, aquariums, sumps, skimmer, electrical, plumbing, radiant heating system, humidity controls, overflows, light racks, canopy, tank tops, sump tops, needle wheel impellers. With big builds you can save a lot of money going the DIY route. I saved thousands building my own setup. I think if you are wanting to take on some DIY and you are unsure on your skill set then I would start with the sump, skimmer, tops, light racks.

Considerations on DIY for large displays

• Access to display and filtration
• Emergency kit/backup power
• Diversified electrical outlets on at least two breakers
• Humidity controls
• Impact of tank weight on floor
• Be prepared to have some setbacks or failures that require work to be redone
• If you build any custom parts for the make a few extras in case they break down the line

Thank you for taking the time to write out a thoughtful and detailed response. Know that I highly value input like yours and will definitely be taking it to heart as I move forward.

Thankfully, the house that will contain this beast won't even be completed until summer of 2021 so I have plenty of time to plan, prep, and procure the supplies and equipment that I need.

Also, GORGEOUS tank btw!!! ;Drool;Drool;Drool And thanks for posting all the videos along the way, diving into them right now as we speak!

 

[WVNed]

You can play with this calculator. It will give the system total weigh.
For a tank that size I would put in 4 electric circuits, a dedicated wet room, Strategically placed drains and water supplies. You drip a lot of water on to the floor just doing maintenance.

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

You can play with this calculator. It will give the system total weigh.
For a tank that size I would put in 4 electric circuits, a dedicated wet room, Strategically placed drains and water supplies. You drip a lot of water on to the floor just doing maintenance.

Like 4 electric circuits that are independent from the rest of the house with their own panel and everything? I was under the impression that I'd be okay with a single separate circuit with its own panel. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly?

Thanks for the input.

 

[AlexG]

Like 4 electric circuits that are independent from the rest of the house with their own panel and everything? I was under the impression that I'd be okay with a single separate circuit with its own panel. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly?

Thanks for the input.

If you run a sub panel for the fish room you could put a 60-100amp main on it depending on the expected load capacity of your main breaker panel. Then run smaller 15-20amp GFCI or GFCI/AFCI(DFCI) breakers for outlets off of the sub panel. I would mount all outlets above the waterline of the tanks when possible and fit them with outdoor covers.

 

[Blue Tang Clan]

Like 4 electric circuits that are independent from the rest of the house with their own panel and everything? I was under the impression that I'd be okay with a single separate circuit with its own panel. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly?

Thanks for the input.

Not a chance. You want a bare minimum of 2 circuits for redundancy in case one accidentally trips, which will happen in a water environment.

If you are building the house, do yourself a favor and put in 3 or 4 dedicated 20amp circuits. Not standard 15 amp (white 14gauge) circuits; use actual 20 amp breakers and yellow 12 gauge wire - the cost is pennies different when building.

15 amp = 1800 watts of power capacity (although 1600 max is recommended)
20 amp = 2400 watts of power capacity (although 2100 max is recommended)

In Tampa, you might not need a lot of heat in the winter, but for a large enough tank, it wouldn't be out of the question to run two 600W heaters.

1. 75-100W - Return pump 1
2. 75-100W - Return pump 2 -- you will have at least two for redundancy, or feeding manifold etc.
3. 50W Skimmer pump
4. 100W each for Kessil A360x lights or Radion XR15s -- double for XR30s. More if adding T5 bulbs
5. 1200W heaters
6. 100W Refugium grow light
7. 25W - ATO
8. 50W x 6 for powerheads
9. 120W UV Sterilizer?
10. 100W Regular lights and switches in the room
==============
~1900 watts

That is a conservative estimate but it still loads up a single 20amp circuit. What if a circuit breaker trips while you are away at work? If instead you have two, the other circuit (assuming it doesn't also trip) could cover half the load and half the life support systems.

What if you have a hospital/QT tank that needs a powerhead, light, and heater? That's another 150W in total right there.

I did three 20amp home-run circuits, and those can be connected to a generator if the whole house power goes out. Plan for the worst.

 

[ca1ore]

Circuits into a dedicated panel seems unnecessary. Agree with three home run 20 amp circuits, at least, for a huge system. Chiller will eat up one by itself.

 

[Blue Tang Clan]

I split mine up this way:

Line 1:
Return pump 1
Skimmer pump
600W Heaters
Apex Dos
mixing station pumps
4 MP40 power heads

Line 2:
Return pump 2
120W UV
600W Heaters
Apex Dos
Mixing station heaters
3 MP40 power heads
Under cabinet lights

Line 3:
1340 watts = 7 Kessil A360x lights + 10 54w T5 bulbs + Fuge light

Line 4 (standard height outlets and ceiling lights):
Ceiling cans
Vent exhaust fan
Circulation fan

 

[ElussssvReefSD]

So just to make sure I'm understanding this right, if using 20 Amp circuits, then the ideal max wattage would be around 2000W per circuit. You would also want redundancy with at minimum the circuit(s) powering the water pumps in case something tripped.

Then, if those circuits cumulatively were too much for the main panel (which will be at least 200 Amps), they would need a their own sub-panel right? This scenario will be made more likely by the fact that all appliances will be electric as we won't have access to a gas line. Also, there will be roof solar panels and an EV charger as well.

So in summary, more electrical than I had originally anticipated, but that's okay.

 

[Adam Schindler]

The general idea is 80% of the breakers amperage. So like they said on a 20 amp breakers it’s capable of running all 20 amps. But it shouldn’t be pushed past 16 unless you want a constant trip hazard along with other possible problems along the way.