Too much Flow?

[Mikey-D]

I have for intense purposes purchased equipment that will be used for the upgrade tank. I am starting with a 40b. The ext overflow box is rated at 2400gph, the return pump is the red dragon 3 mini rated at 1321. The pipe for the drain is 1" and the return is 3/4" . I also have unions, 90 degree elbows and a wye gate on the return and a gate valve plus elbows and unions on the drain line becasue the overflow is a animal bean style. I have all the calculations written down for the pressure lost as I have not yet built the entire system I dont know how many pieces will be included. My question is did I buy too much for the 40b. Also the sump is 34 gallons that will have a refugium, biopellet and skimmer inside the sump.

 

[KStatefan]

What is your target for turn over?

 

[design.maddie]

I don't that you bought too much pump. I aim for a turn over rate of between 5-10x.

 

[Mikey-D]

What is your target for turn over?

To be frank I am just know learning about flow rate and the importance of this. I try to be as thoroughly knowledgeable about this hobby, but I am teaching myself and stumbled upon this important topic that seems many newbies overlook

20%.

So right now I am at 40b + 33Sump = 73 x 20TR = 1460

It will be a mixed reef and I will have chaeto, dose phyto and running the triton method which is minimal 10x flow through the sump.

Numbers broken down

Skimmer - Reef Octo INT110 (Max Flow 92gph)
Im thinking I may need to upgrade this now because it isnt really going to have the desired effect on the system totality.

Bio Pellet - BR-110 (Max Flow 520-790gph)


Return Pump - Red Dragon mini 50w(Max Flow 1321gph)
May need to upgrade this as well.

Overflow - Fiji (Max Flow 2400gph)


Note: Maybe topic should be Too Little Flow, now that I see everything written down, lol. Also im thinking 15 turnover rate would be much more attainable flow and budget wise.

 

[Mikey-D]

Can I Bump my own post, lol. If so Bump!

 

[Crustaceon]

I have for intense purposes purchased equipment that will be used for the upgrade tank. I am starting with a 40b. The ext overflow box is rated at 2400gph, the return pump is the red dragon 3 mini rated at 1321. The pipe for the drain is 1" and the return is 3/4" . I also have unions, 90 degree elbows and a wye gate on the return and a gate valve plus elbows and unions on the drain line becasue the overflow is a animal bean style. I have all the calculations written down for the pressure lost as I have not yet built the entire system I dont know how many pieces will be included. My question is did I buy too much for the 40b. Also the sump is 34 gallons that will have a refugium, biopellet and skimmer inside the sump.

Figuring 5-10X display volume turnover through your sump is what you really want, that would equate to around 400gph on the high end. Anything beyond that isn't going to do the job any better and likely will just cause all kinds of flow and noise issues. (Pulls out a crystal ball) I see in your future you will be sizing your drain pipes via reducers down from 1" to 1/2" siphon, 3/4" durso secondary and 1" emergency. You'll also run your return pump at 10% power. All in total these changes will prevent your tank from sounding like Niagara Falls and from blowing all sand, corals, fish and maybe rock as well into your overflow box.

 

[Koh23]

Just remember, you can always limit flow, increasing it (if needed) is very difficult without buying new pump....

 

[Mikey-D]

Figuring 5-10X display volume turnover through your sump is what you really want, that would equate to around 400gph on the high end. Anything beyond that isn't going to do the job any better and likely will just cause all kinds of flow and noise issues. (Pulls out a crystal ball) I see in your future you will be sizing your drain pipes via reducers down from 1" to 1/2" siphon, 3/4" durso secondary and 1" emergency. You'll also run your return pump at 10% power. All in total these changes will prevent your tank from sounding like Niagara Falls and from blowing all sand, corals, fish and maybe rock as well into your overflow box.

I see I see.....so if I were to plug a good number of the weirs...That way I could save this later for a bigger build...Looking at that crystal ball I see that as well, lol. This could essinitally reduce he amount of flow from the DT into the sump and I wouldnt have to play the reducer game since I already bought all the piping.....??

Too simple of a fix??

 

[Mikey-D]

Just remember, you can always limit flow, increasing it (if needed) is very difficult without buying new pump....

Thats what I originally had in my head that if i need it I have it, without have to buy extra.

There is so much science and math involved....I absolutely love it, but holy ****

 

[Koh23]

Newer do math, for me, its very simple - best and strongest pump that i can buy, of course that dont mean gazilion gph and thousands of money.....

All in common sense, its better to have few (hundreds) gph more than less... Sadly sometimes money interfere with our plans, but....

Like we need reason to buy new fancy piece of equipment

 

[Crustaceon]

I see I see.....so if I were to plug a good number of the weirs...That way I could save this later for a bigger build...Looking at that crystal ball I see that as well, lol. This could essinitally reduce he amount of flow from the DT into the sump and I wouldnt have to play the reducer game since I already bought all the piping.....??

Too simple of a fix??

No matter what, you're going to need to run two drains. One for main flow and a secondary to balance overall flow.... which means dual 1" drains... which means way too much flow and an obnoxious amount of noise even if you install gate valves, etc. Personally, I would bite the bullet and redo the drains now before having everything up and running and realizing it's not what you want later on. As mentioned, your pump is much less of an issue here because it's easy to dial that back without causing other problems.

 

[Mikey-D]

No matter what, you're going to need to run two drains. One for main flow and a secondary to balance overall flow.... which means dual 1" drains... which means way too much flow and an obnoxious amount of noise even if you install gate valves, etc. Personally, I would bite the bullet and redo the drains now before having everything up and running and realizing it's not what you want later on. As mentioned, your pump is much less of an issue here because it's easy to dial that back without causing other problems.

I hear you.....Id just hate to have to go this way since I already have orderd and ready to go for when I get home...I have nothing but time to research and learn right now so if i have to get some reducers and extra pipe I will. I do have the parts to run (2)1" drains, that was always the plan.

Would a 75 gallon fix the noise? I have debated on this before.

 

[Crustaceon]

I hear you.....Id just hate to have to go this way since I already have orderd and ready to go for when I get home...I have nothing but time to research and learn right now so if i have to get some reducers and extra pipe I will. I do have the parts to run (2)1" drains, that was always the plan.

Would a 75 gallon fix the noise? I have debated on this before.

The main problem is the flow rate going out has to match the flow rate coming in somewhat. The closer you match it without having too much additional capacity for flow, the quieter the drain will generally be so long as you're not pushing an insane amount of flow through a small area and creating whitewater rapids which is always going to be the case here. I think if you had a 200+ gallon display and a 100 gallon sump, you'd be fine with that size of drain tubing. It really all comes down to being within that 5-10x turnover rate. In all honesty, the easiest and cheapest approach here is changing the primary and secondary drain tube sizing.

 

[Koh23]

I know that this is not popular, but i like when my tank talk to me...

No gurgling, slurping, or some loud noises, but, gentle sound of waves, or water going into sump, quiet thickling of water....

In very short time, ears get used to that sounds, so i dont notice them any more. And great thing is, that without looking i know when i need to change filter sock, when pumps get dirty, and obvious, is everything runs like it should.

Any sound different from what i get used to is kind of alarm, i know that something is off....

Strange, i know...

 

[Mikey-D]

I know that this is not popular, but i like when my tank talk to me...

No gurgling, slurping, or some loud noises, but, gentle sound of waves, or water going into sump, quiet thickling of water....

In very short time, ears get used to that sounds, so i dont notice them any more. And great thing is, that without looking i know when i need to change filter sock, when pumps get dirty, and obvious, is everything runs like it should.

Any sound different from what i get used to is kind of alarm, i know that something is off....

Strange, i know...

I am all about the unpopular side of this hobby. I have had conversations about my setup being more on the natural order side using live rock and wanting the hitchhikers and I enjoyed the sounds and visuals of many tanks I have seen, even the first one I tried out (went horrilby wrong) that had a small trickle as well and I enjoyed it.

I dont like the steril quiet tanks. I think its unnatural and its more of an art piece than wanting to create a piece of the ocean in your home. Even most the aquascapes are ugly to me.

 

[Crustaceon]

I know that this is not popular, but i like when my tank talk to me...

No gurgling, slurping, or some loud noises, but, gentle sound of waves, or water going into sump, quiet thickling of water....

In very short time, ears get used to that sounds, so i dont notice them any more. And great thing is, that without looking i know when i need to change filter sock, when pumps get dirty, and obvious, is everything runs like it should.

Any sound different from what i get used to is kind of alarm, i know that something is off....

Strange, i know...

I think that's a fair point. It really comes down to what you want as far as noise goes. I'm a quiet tank person. I got rid of my maxpect gyres because my drains were so quiet to the point that I could hear a constant "weeeeOooOoo weeeeOOooeeeeeOOooOoeeeeeOOOOO" from the pumps and it was annoying me. If you like the sound of crashing water, run what you've got. It's not going to hurt anything in the tank as long as the return pump flow is toned down to the point where it's not blasting everything in the display. Just watch for increased salt creep.

 

[Mikey-D]

I need someone to invent a saltwater reefing dictionary

 

[Enderg60]

If your fish cant get off the side of the tank, or you're blasting flesh off the corals then turn it down a bit.

 

[Mikey-D]

If your fish cant get off the side of the tank, or you're blasting flesh off the corals then turn it down a bit.

https://tenor.com/view/blown-away-gif-11550590

 

[Acros]

• Your total water volume will be lower than the calculated 73g. It will be closer to 50g once you factor in water displaced by rock and a lower water level in various sump sections.
• Regardless of how strong your return pump is, you will need additional wavemakers in a 3ft long tank to avoid dead spots.
• I believe in buying what you need now and not buying for a future upgrade. There will always be newer, better equipment once you are ready for the upgrade.