Torch and some other corals closing up

[Scope]

Hey all, here's some background details first.

I went on a 3 day business trip with my wife feeding my fish. In the meantime I ran out of fleece in my roller but my nutrients haven't spiked much.

No3 went from 5.3 to 7.6 between 18th and 22nd of May.
Haven't measured PO4 but it was at 0.04 ppm on Monday so it shouldn't be that much higher looking at nitrogen.

Alkalinity went up from 7.7 dkh to 8 over the course of 3 days because I'm dosing kalkwasser.

I also increased temp slightly from 25 to 26 C before I left on Tuesday. I did that to speed up life cycle of ich because my blue tang got it (all good now).

Since I came back my torch is partly closed up. GSP is completely closed, so are both my toadstool leathers. One of my acros is also not showing any polyp extension even at night. Something has to be off but can't quite figure out what. Hammers look happy as ever, seriatopora and ricordea seem unaffected as well. Bali green slimer acro also looks good.

 

[Channas]

Whats your mg and calcium? the nitrate can be low meanwhile phosphates are high, i have experienced it myself. A tip is to check both nitrate and phosphate and dont solely rely on one test result of nitrate and assume the other one is fine or vice versa.

When it comes to torches they get unhappy quite easily in my experience unless they are well established. Low mg, low calcium low alk are things that tick them off more than nitrate or phosphates atleast i belive so.

But the worst of all are swings in alk. Has there been any alk swings latley? The damage from a alk swing can take a long time before the corals show that there is something wrong, up to several weeks.

 

[Scope]

Whats your mg and calcium?

Last time I checked Ca was around 395 ppm and Mg 1400 ppm. It's been like that for weeks every time I test.

Has there been any alk swings latley?

The only alkalinity swings I can think of was about 2 weeks ago where I made my batch of kalkwasser stronger (or just undermixed a previous one) and it went from 7.6 to 8.2, then dropped back to 7.6 in 48 hours after I adjusted the dose which was around a week ago.

the nitrate can be low meanwhile phosphates are high, i have experienced it myself. A tip is to check both nitrate and phosphate and dont solely rely on one test result of nitrate and assume the other one is fine or vice versa.

I've been struggling to keep phosphates at detectable levels from the start. I've been feeding heavily so the only thing I can think of happening is po4 dropping because my wife was only feeding frozen food while I also throw in some dry pellets and flakes. I'll test on Tuesday after my regular water change.

 

[Channas]

That swing should not have made any impact on the corals but it could have for some reason but unlikley. Alright my suggestion is to test mg and calcium and phosphate because it can very well be that the phosphate had bottomed out and this is the reason they are abit ticked off

 

[Scope]

Just tested phosphates, 0.02 ppm... You were right, almost bottomed out, and it's only half of what it was at the beginning of the week, which must've upset the corals.

 

[Channas]

Just tested phosphates, 0.02 ppm... You were right, almost bottomed out, and it's only half of what it was at the beginning of the week, which must've upset the corals.

Its a good chance it is but i suggest you do a testing of calcium and mg just to be safe that there is nothing out of order there as Well

 

[Scope]

i suggest you do a testing of calcium and mg just to be safe

Just did that, my Ca is 400 ppm, and Mg is 1340 ppm. Mg dropped just a tiny bit and Ca is slightly higher but that might as well be a testing error.

 

[Channas]

Just did that, my Ca is 400 ppm, and Mg is 1340 ppm. Mg dropped just a tiny bit and Ca is slightly higher but that might as well be a testing error.

Could be or it could be accurate, wont know for sure unless icp is sent but, baseline here, torches and most lps in fact like higher phosphates as Well as softies, the general consensus, 0.07-0.1ppm in phosphates and arround 7-10 nitrate. im not really agreeing to those Numbers.

As long as you keep your tank stable and everything is good you can get away with higher phosphates and nitrate, i personaly run my tank at (approx) 435-450 calcium, 1450-1500 magnesium, kh/alk 10.5-11dkh, nitrate 14-17ppm, phosphate 0.14-0.17 ppm and a pH of 8.5 at it’s peak but there has been times where my phosphate have been at 0.42 at most and with no issues with corals and still showing growth, so for me low nutrition is far more damaging than higher.

I keep acros, montis various other sps, softies and i have a big torch garden and alot of Other lps and all of them thrive under these levels which tells me that nutrients are not dangerous, swings are and low nutrients. But this is just my personal opinion from my experience.

I used to run ultra low system and i had way more issues with corals, algae, cyano and diatomer now there is barely any issues when running a ”dirty” tank, i get occasional small Patch of cyano that goes away during water change

 

[Scope]

I think that the sudden drop in already low phosphates is the most likely culprit. I've been struggling keeping them up since the beginning so I feed really heavily and it seems to help. In fact, when I added my first corals I tested the tank with my hanna checker for the 1st time and it only showed 1ppb of phosphorus...

The rising alkalinity hasn't helped I think but as long as it's not wild like 1dkh over 24h, the corals will be fine.

Btw, haven't mentioned it but about a week or 2 ago I mysteriously lost a ricordea while my other 2 survived and look okay. No idea what could've caused it but perhaps the phosphates were too low for it?

 

[Channas]

Maybe it’s time to add some more Fish to your tank? That Will help with the phosphates

I think that the sudden drop in already low phosphates is the most likely culprit. I've been struggling keeping them up since the beginning so I feed really heavily and it seems to help. In fact, when I added my first corals I tested the tank with my hanna checker for the 1st time and it only showed 1ppb of phosphorus...

The rising alkalinity hasn't helped I think but as long as it's not wild like 1dkh over 24h, the corals will be fine.

Btw, haven't mentioned it but about a week or 2 ago I mysteriously lost a ricordea while my other 2 survived and look okay. No idea what could've caused it but perhaps the phosphates were too low for

Yeah that is most likley the case.
Maybe it’s time to add some more Fish to your tank? That would help with your phosphates lost as in died? Or as in vanished? Ricordea dont die easy, but perhaps it was in a worse state than the other two and starved i actually forgot ti ask before have you checked your salinity? Is your tester Calibrated? This should have been my first question

 

[Scope]

Maybe it’s time to add some more Fish to your tank? That Will help with the phosphates

Love this approach, 2 bristletooth tangs are joining the crew tomorrow.

Lost as in died? Or as in vanished? Ricordea dont die easy, but perhaps it was in a worse state than the other two

That rico was super small when I got it. It attached itself to a rock and when I moved it close to my already established ricordea, it just closed up, started sliming and is gone... I suspect it died but could've also dislodged. It looked like it was dying tho.

Forgot to ask before have you checked your salinity? Is your tester Calibrated? This should have been my first question

Oh yeah, I'm testing weekly with a floating hydrometer from Tropic Marin and compensating for temperature when I measure. It's at 1.0262 sg most of the time and doesn't swing much more than 0.0001 sg per week. I try to be really diligent about that.

 

[Channas]

Love this approach, 2 bristletooth tangs are joining the crew tomorrow.


That rico was super small when I got it. It attached itself to a rock and when I moved it close to my already established ricordea, it just closed up, started sliming and is gone... I suspect it died but could've also dislodged. It looked like it was dying tho.


Oh yeah, I'm testing weekly with a floating hydrometer from Tropic Marin and compensating for temperature when I measure. It's at 1.0262 sg most of the time and doesn't swing much more than 0.0001 sg per week. I try to be really diligent about that.

Hmm maybe some kind of warfare between the Ricordea? Weird non the less. Alright good with the salinity testing.

Yeah adding Fish is always fun sadly i cant stock my tank with more.. even though i really want to

 

[CHSUB]

also increased temp slightly from 25 to 26 C before I left on Tuesday. I did that to speed up life cycle of ich because my blue tang got it (all good now).

What makes you think, “all good now”? Ich doesn’t just go away. It is a parasite with a life cycle that reinfects the fish(host) over and over; at a minimum of great discomfort to the fish or death.

No3 went from 5.3 to 7.6 between 18th and 22nd of May.
Haven't measured PO4 but it was at 0.04 ppm

These levels are not low by any metric and completely unlikely to cause coral issues. Your tank looks very new? More about your tank would be useful to understand a problem..

 

[CHSUB]

Love this approach, 2 bristletooth tangs are joining the crew tomorrow.

With ich in the tank?

 

[Scope]

What makes you think, “all good now”?

When I was writing that post it seemed like the spots started to disappear but today it's still clearly battling it. It's eating and behaving normally though so I don't see any reason to stress it further by chasing it with a net and putting it into a hospital tank. I'm feeding with quality, enriched foods, running UV so as far as ich management goes I think it's going to be okay.

These levels are not low by any metric and completely unlikely to cause coral issues. Your tank looks very new? More about your tank would be useful to understand a problem..

I know they aren't super low but phosphates levels halved over a couple of days and I see no other reason for corals to look worse upon my return. I'm sending a water sample for an ICP test next week to hopefully learn more. The tank is rather fresh, running since March so I understand there's a long way ahead of me till it reaches stability and a state of equilibrium.

With ich in the tank?

I called today and tried cancelling the order but it was too late, unfortunately. But, since I'm not going for the ich eradication approach, ich is always in the tank, right? I know it's not ideal, and I'm taking a risk here.

 

[CHSUB]

I know it's not ideal, and I'm taking a risk here.

Blue tangs are my favorite fish and have kept many over years and while possible to manage ich, blue tang are highly sensitive to ich out breaks. Hopefully you understand how difficult this situation may become.

GL

 

[Scope]

Blue tangs are my favorite fish and have kept many over years and while possible to manage ich, blue tang are highly sensitive to ich out breaks. Hopefully you understand how difficult this situation may become.

GL

Thanks. Yeah, I do understand that if left untreated and it gets bad enough, it's lethal. I talked with some fellow hobbyists and LFS owners, and they pretty much all said that while you can look at a hippo tang wrong and it will get ich, all it takes most of the time is good feeding with vitamin-enriched frozen food, nori available all day, and good quality pellets/flakes. Mine still eats like a pig and outcompetes every other tankmate over every bigger piece of mysis. It most likely got sick from the acclimation stress and being in a new tank, considering it got it about 3 days after introduction.

I'm also running a UV unit with a lower flow rate to target the free-swimming stage. If all that fails and the condition doesn't improve, I'm absolutely going to treat it with copper in a separate tank, but that's my last resort.

 

[Channas]

I have a blue hippo tang too, got him about 9 months or so ago and probably had ich for about 2-3 days upon introduction before it went away, i think my cleaner shrimp cleaned it and it has not broken out again and thats all i did combined with homegrown macro algae and frozen food enriched with garlic spirulina and vitamins i add on the food. No dry foods goes in my tank.

I have 3 tangs, blue hippo, yellow eyed kole tang and a purple tang all of them got ich for a couple of days upon introduction (atleast i think it was ich).

So a cleaner shrimp is a good addition or two

 

[CHSUB]

i think my cleaner shrimp cleaned

Giving the fact only….studies of “cleaner shrimp” stomach’s contents shows they don’t consume ich. The white dots we see are not the ich itself but the wound the burrowing parasite produces.

 

[Channas]

Giving the fact only….studies of “cleaner shrimp” stomach’s contents shows they don’t consume ich. The white dots we see are not the ich itself but the wound the burrowing parasite produces.

I see, maybe the white dots was something Else then and probably stress related on my tangs, it was 9 months ago since i seen any dots and nothing since (i inspect my tank inhabitants every day for minimum of 20 min) or they have built up their immunity to it. Either way cleaner shrimp gives stress relief to Fish and help to fight off the parasite just enough for the Fish to build up their resistance against it, thats what i belive anyway.