Traditional (no product/ghost feeding/in tank fish) cycling vs using products such as Dr. Tims....

[Reaper_Six_Four]

So I'm building my second tank and looking for other ways of cycling it (I cycled the previous one the "traditional" way by introducing some bacteria through a used filter and ghost feeding, no issues encountered).

I've been polling other threads in FB and everyone suggest "time" and patience. While I 100% agree things shouldn't be rushed in this hobby, I also understand that there are methods and products that when used properly assist in achieving desired results in a shorter span or other positive gains.

That said, when I have posted the question "Best product out thee to speed up a cycle", there have been many responses such as "None, do it naturally, you will regret it later.." or other comments to that effect.

My question is this:

• Assume that I'm not introducing live stock until my cycle is complete (because I know better in that regard) and that my tank will go through through it's expected ugly stage: are there side negative side effects to using products such as Dr. Tims/Bio-Spira or any other products out there that isn't immediately seen?

There are may schools of thought when doing this hobby. I just want to get the data so I can ascertain how to proceed. I didn't have any issues cycling my last tank but am always open to new ideas.

Thanks in advance.

 

[brandon429]

ask anyone who is advising you on a cycle to post a link where they naturally cycled a reef tank, without any assistance, none of them have

you wont see one example

They're giving you unspoken mixed information based on a confused take on cycling options, such as: many cycles are total skip cycles because someone buys fully cured reef rocks from a pet store with starfish in the crevices, coralline algae, perhaps a sprig of algae or two (true live rock, vs dry from a shelf-from a pet store, not shipped from the ocean)

and they set that rock in the reef and let it sit there and call that cycling, building up bacteria, though it's already done the minute they set that rock into the tank. they can't comprehend a skip cycle, everything is 'wait longer' for them due to a very limited take on cycling options

they specifically do not read the instructions on their ammonia kits. the instructions say: reefs and marine tanks factor ammonia as nh3 form, exclusively.


and then they take a reading as nh4, deem that a stuck cycle, and proof the rock wasn't ready- all from not reading their directions on their ammonia kit (nh4 reporting is for freshwater exclusively)

and then the other 80% of cycles are someone dumping in bottle bac and feeding it

there is only 1 example of a truly unassisted cycle on the entire site, thats why I know none of the facebook umpires have any real experience in the matter, pls post any examples that may apply.


*there is no harm in using dr tims or any other cycling bac whatsoever. it's the most common cycling method.

4 major cycling differential approaches:

1. live rock skip cycling, covered above. runs every marine convention display tank since 1983 and never fails, or the convention could not all start on the same date, some of the entrants wouldnt be ready if the method didn't work or sometimes failed. it has a 30 year, 0% fail rate, we call this the best #1 way of them all.

2. dry rocks and bottle bac + some kind of feed
this is the top method in reefing for cycles, and the method just about all the facebook advisors use but never differentiate against the other methods.

3. ocean cured rocks harvested and mailed to you: require time waited out in clean water, no feed nor bottle bac added, since their issue isn't bacteria it's dying marine organisms you have to wait to rot out before placing the rock in your tank. this rock has the most bacteria at the very start vs ALL methods, you never ever need to add bacteria to ocean rock down cure cycles, these cycles aren't for adding bacteria they're for stopping a loss cascade of attached marine organisms

4. blended cycle. a portion of already live rock + adding some white dry base rock

-you just add the dry rock and nothing else. in 10-20 days the new rock is fully cycled, free of charge, merely by waiting the known time a cycling chart has been showing us for eighty years. the actual live rock IS casting off other bacteria into the water on floc rafts and this lands on new submerged rocks and is now real estate for colonization.

**anyone who tells you that reef tank water does not carry transmissible, huge amounts of FREE cycling bacteria is either a bottle bac salesman trying to get your dollar or it's a rehashing of completely untrue material from online made up sources. reef tank water is absolutely chock full of transmissible cycling bac, I have threads of only reef water bringing up 200 pounds of dry rock to ready in 20 days (nh3 ammonia testing on file + fish carry on day 20)

*I don't care if some aquabiomic's testing didn't show cycling bac in water samples, I don't think that's a valid scope for cycle assessment whatsoever. its a dna startup/very popular nowadays/ has no effect on the myriad threads we turn out carrying full tanks of fish. if a tank carries 25 fish transferred in, that's a cycled tank. they'd be dead were it uncycled.

 

[brandon429]

one addendum

no testing is required if you use updated cycling science rules. testing is required by the old, crappier means of cycling.


testless cycling: order some Biospira reef cycling bac, or fritz, or Dr Tims

only those three options dont buy the other kinds. ATM colony is ok if you can get that too.

add it in to a tank of dry rocks if you want (dont add bac to live rock, we covered above that's skip cycle rock)

add in two pinches of fish food ground up into powder

let your whole tank run ten days, you're cycled, and anyone who disagrees isn't reading their ammonia kit instructions correctly on day ten, don't even bother to test it can't fail. the thing you're measuring is the number of days wait, not the water parameters. this saves folks from having to read the instructions altogether


post this link to anyone on facebook so that I may bait them into giving me my data I need for unassisted marine tank cycles/ I truly want to see examples of them turning white dry base rock into reef rock adding no form of assistance whatsoever. let's see who was patient enough to wait a year for that, and document it as incomplete at the start, then fully handling ammonia in 24 hours at the end.

 

[Slocke]

I don't really understand the cycling craze. I will never "cycle" again. In every tank you have make sure there is a dark spot to put some bio-filtration (preferably ceramic or another porous material not plastic). Then when you start a new tank add that. It will be covered in bacteria and then all you have to do is make sure you don't increase the bio load too fast.
Also many LFS keep dark cycled rock that you can just buy and presto you've skipped the cycle.

Just ghost feed and test for ammonia for a week. I've never seen ammonia using either of those methods.

The issue with bottled bacteria is it may lack the biodiversity of tank rock/bio-filtration.

 

[Rovert]

I have no anecdotal or direct evidence on the one method versus the other. It's just a biological fact that you need nitrifying bacteria, it has to come from somewhere, and the more diversity the better. So I don't see any harm in bottled stuff, I used it myself this time in conjunction with maricultured live rock.

Another 'half-way' method of fishless and addive-less cycling is to use clear ammonia in place of food. You don't have to wait for it to break down, yielding faster results. I've done that before with success. Just be sure that you get CLEAR ammonia, no dyes or colorants.

 

[exnisstech]

Another 'half-way' method of fishless and addive-less cycling is to use clear ammonia in place of food. You don't have to wait for it to break down, yielding faster results. I've done that before with success. Just be sure that you get CLEAR ammonia, no dyes or colorants.

This is how I normally do it.