Treating ICH in a display (reef tank)?

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Definitely sounds like velvet. Velvet is partially photosynthetic.

Actually, marine velvet, Amyloodinium isn’t photosynthetic, just freshwater velvet, Oodinium is.
Jay

 

[brandon429]

as I read here it stands out that quarantine doesnt always have to be about dosed meds it can be about observing the fish for emerging issues for X amount of time before moving into a display, reducing vector chances vs just adding

is that a fair summary of qt benefits for new readers

 

[Goaway]

Actually, marine velvet, Amyloodinium isn’t photosynthetic, just freshwater velvet, Oodinium is.
Jay

I am going to have to find new articles on marine velvet to read. That's rather interesting news to me.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I am going to have to find new articles on marine velvet to read. That's rather interesting news to me.

It is a tough reference to find - you’ll find a lot of hobbyist literature that says they do, but they are all referencing each other. If you find a true scientific reference, it will say that this species is not photosynthetic…
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I am going to have to find new articles on marine velvet to read. That's rather interesting news to me.

I found a way to find this: in Google type in Amyloodinium chloroplasts the first two hits are papers that explain this species does not have chloroplasts.
Jay

 

[Goaway]

I found a way to find this: in Google type in Amyloodinium chloroplasts the first two hits are papers that explain this species does not have chloroplasts.
Jay

Ty, I very much appreciate this.

 

[gideon2086]

Providing another update. The fish appear to continue to get healthier. There has been no loss since the initial three. The only fish still currently showing any signs at all of Velvet is the Powder Brown Tang and the two Clarkii clowns. The clowns actually temporarily went blind from the parasite. Outside of the normal sheen and endless white specks their eyes clouded over and they very obviously could not see - they mostly hovered in place, but when attempting to swim would hit rocks/glass. Their vision has returned and they are eating ferociously. Only one of the two has some signs of velvet on their body. The powder brown is still the worst off - clear signs on his body and he occasionally swins into the flow of the wavemakers. With that said, he is improving, he has never stopped eating. Fingers crossed everyone hangs in there.

 

[cancun]

Providing another update. The fish appear to continue to get healthier. There has been no loss since the initial three. The only fish still currently showing any signs at all of Velvet is the Powder Brown Tang and the two Clarkii clowns. The clowns actually temporarily went blind from the parasite. Outside of the normal sheen and endless white specks their eyes clouded over and they very obviously could not see - they mostly hovered in place, but when attempting to swim would hit rocks/glass. Their vision has returned and they are eating ferociously. Only one of the two has some signs of velvet on their body. The powder brown is still the worst off - clear signs on his body and he occasionally swins into the flow of the wavemakers. With that said, he is improving, he has never stopped eating. Fingers crossed everyone hangs in there.

I was following this. How are your fish today?

 

[gideon2086]

I was following this. How are your fish today?

I just came back from another week-long work trip. All of the fish are alive, but the Velvet is still present. The yellow tang, who overcame it and was looking healthy once again looks very ill. He's covered. It's amazing how any of them are alive after dealing with velvet for three weeks now..

 

[cancun]

I just came back from another week-long work trip. All of the fish are alive, but the Velvet is still present. The yellow tang, who overcame it and was looking healthy once again looks very ill. He's covered. It's amazing how any of them are alive after dealing with velvet for three weeks now..

Wow....good luck with your fish. I have been practicing a ich management system for many years. It is not easy, but I added the largest UV sterilizer I could fit. That seems to help a lot. I have never dealt with velvet. Please keep is pasted!

 

[gideon2086]

Another update...

Came back from vacation expecting the worst as I left the fish in the care with a young neighbor and a few still had signs of velvet/ich. I'm happy to report that upon my return all fish are still alive and appear to be very healthy. I see zero signs of disease in the tank at this point. None are swimming into the flow of wavemakers or flashing into the sand/coral. All are eating like pigs. Fingers crossed, but I think I may be over this.

 

[CivicS14]

Another update...

Came back from vacation expecting the worst as I left the fish in the care with a young neighbor and a few still had signs of velvet/ich. I'm happy to report that upon my return all fish are still alive and appear to be very healthy. I see zero signs of disease in the tank at this point. None are swimming into the flow of wavemakers or flashing into the sand/coral. All are eating like pigs. Fingers crossed, but I think I may be over this.

Any update on what happened?

 

[AndrewE]

I would catch the ones you can and treat in a separate tank. For the remainder you could try DR G’s chloroquine impregnated reef caviar. The trick is getting the fish to eat it but if they do you may be able to knock it out. I run my quarantine tank like a mini reef with live rock, mushrooms and some softies as I think the fish acclimate better in a more natural environment. I have been able to successfully treat ich using the above food without affecting the inverts in the tank. Again the trick is getting the fish to eat it. Some will, some won’t. Dosing chloroquine directly into the tank is much much riskier. Tried that once when I couldn’t get my hands on the food with very different and very bad results (brittle star, bristleworm, and other invert die off as well as the sick fish)

Ich is caused by Protozoa which on a cellular level are eukaryotic just like the fish (and people). Most antibiotics work against bacteria which are prokaryotes (fundamentally different metabolically). The antibiotics target these differences, sparing the fishes (and our) cellular metabolism making them safer for the fish. Because ich causing organisms have the same basic cellular metabolic pathways as the fish, treating is harder and riskier and not all medications will be effective. Most antibiotics that target bacteria won’t be effective.
Chloroquine was originally developed to treat malaria, also a protozoan infection, so it seems reasonable that this would be effective against ich

I know this is an old thread, and I'm hoping I get a response, but where would I get this food? I looked online and it looks like they don't sell it anymore.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I know this is an old thread, and I'm hoping I get a response, but where would I get this food? I looked online and it looks like they don't sell it anymore.

Oral chloroquine is very difficult to dose properly. Here is a write up I did on that:

In an effort to isolate the drug from sensitive invertebrates, some aquarists have administered the drug orally to their fish. Chloroquine is very bitter, and if the drug isn’t masked by strong flavors in the food used to bind it with, fish will soon learn to avoid it. In addition, for oral medications to work, the fish still needs to be feeding normally, and acutely ill fish often refuse to feed. Finally, dosage is very difficult to control in oral medication for aquarium fishes. The drug must be mixed into a gelatin food binder at 6 to 10 milligrams of drug per gram of food, and then that has to be fed to the fish at a rate of around 3% of its body weight per day – and few, if any aquarists know the actual weight of their fishes.

 

[jordanrb]

Really sorry to hear about your ich troubles. I wish I could argue against what @Jay Hemdal is saying. Lord knows I have tried my best to prove him wrong with a few in tank treatments. With a mature SPS reef, I'd need to remove all the coral in order to remove the fish. And then try to house them for a fallow... I feel your dilemma.

Hopefully most will pull through. I had one outbreak that looked real bad and they ALL pulled through. Another time maybe 1/4 did not make it. Your wife needs to be prepped to potentially deal with some mortality.

Really sorry.

I am experiencing this for the first time. Did you do anything different or just wait it out?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I am experiencing this for the first time. Did you do anything different or just wait it out?

If you mean “ich management”, there is a thread on that.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-management.1028274/