Tricky or Finicky Eater Thread

[Flame2hawk]

Well after trying everything, nothing is working. Does anyone have any experience with force feeding as a last resort? Have no idea how to actually do it....not sure how much more time i have so this is a last ditch effort....thx

 

[Flame2hawk]

GOLDFLAKE ANGEL “FLAKEY” PASSED TODAY. I’m convinced they are best left in the ocean. Sad day.....

 

[ca1ore]

Random thoughts on problem eaters:

1. Often a new fish requires time to acclimate and begin eating. Whatever food you happened to try just before it began eating was the 'secret' right! Maybe not. Correlation is not causation and perhaps the fish had just settled in and was ready to eat.
2. Although 'try garlic' is often post #2 in any thread on problem eating, I have never found it to be helpful and do not use it.
3. QT is usually thought of as a disease management tool, but it is also very helpful in getting a new fish to eat. A stressed and bullied fish is much less likely to eat than one that is just stressed … because that will pass.
4. #1 above not withstanding, feed variety ….. I use over 10 different kinds of frozen. Although it is not available anymore, I keep as stash of nutramar ova on hand for leopard wrasses and finnicky angels. Brine shrimp can be irresistible.
5. Get the food moving. Many fish show an enhanced feeding response when they think their 'prey' is trying to escape. i always drop a power head in my QT tank …. and never turn off any pumps to feed the display.
6. Research the feeding habits of a new fish. Some are grazers/scrapers and will not quickly adapt to feeding from the water column …. or may never adapt.
7. Sometimes a new fish just doesn't eat no matter what you try. just wasn't meant to be .

 

[Flame2hawk]

Random thoughts on problem eaters:

1. Often a new fish requires time to acclimate and begin eating. Whatever food you happened to try just before it began eating was the 'secret' right! Maybe not. Correlation is not causation and perhaps the fish had just settled in and was ready to eat.
2. Although 'try garlic' is often post #2 in any thread on problem eating, I have never found it to be helpful and do not use it.
3. QT is usually thought of as a disease management tool, but it is also very helpful in getting a new fish to eat. A stressed and bullied fish is much less likely to eat than one that is just stressed … because that will pass.
4. #1 above not withstanding, feed variety ….. I use over 10 different kinds of frozen. Although it is not available anymore, I keep as stash of nutramar ova on hand for leopard wrasses and finnicky angels. Brine shrimp can be irresistible.
5. Get the food moving. Many fish show an enhanced feeding response when they think their 'prey' is trying to escape. i always drop a power head in my QT tank …. and never turn off any pumps to feed the display.
6. Research the feeding habits of a new fish. Some are grazers/scrapers and will not quickly adapt to feeding from the water column …. or may never adapt.
7. Sometimes a new fish just doesn't eat no matter what you try. just wasn't meant to be .

Tried it all. Sad nothing worked. Thx though....

 

[chicago]

Sorry to hear.. my Conspic is on the way out also.. I have moved him to QT.. a Day of copper to see if that helps.. If he makes it the day I intend on reducing the level of copper and see if the QT quite setting in the tank away from aggressive feeders helps.. but right now he is sitting and not really swimming.. Heavy breathing.. no signs of any disease and I believe Intestinal worms,,

 

[lion king]

GOLDFLAKE ANGEL “FLAKEY” PASSED TODAY. I’m convinced they are best left in the ocean. Sad day.....

Yes sad, sorry to hear that, you did say you also have a flagfin, right. I loss a goldflake and have now have a flagfin for more than 2 years. Everyone warned me against flagfins and said goldflakes were hardier. So initially I got a goldflake, at the time it was the most expensive I had ever bought, so him passing was a hard pill to swallow.

I had a rigorous time clearing the flagfin of all parasites, sticking with it and being very observant he got through it. Presently he is an aggressive eater, and even somewhat rambunctious if not borderline bullying. the lfs in the know are amazed I have had for as long as I have.

The parasite issue is likely the cause of more losses than anything else right now, I'm mainly a predator guy and lions are pretty much 99.9% riddled with parasites. When a fish doesn't eat, stop giving him time to adjust, immediately treat for internal parasites. General cure in the water column, and provide foods that are more natural to his diet in the wild.

@chicago, stop copper and treat with general cure.

 

[chicago]

yep that is the plan..

 

[Flame2hawk]

I must say that there is a reason why you don’t see many GF’s in tanks... Survivability is very suspect. I learned the hard way.....I for one will leave them in the deep ocean where they belong. I suspect mine was already too set in his ways and just wouldn’t or couldn’t adjust. Also have continued reading allot about them and since they are often found in very deep waters, capturing them is usually very stressful and they could suffer internal damage as they are brought up. Found one article that spoke about how it is almost impossible to get them to eat if collected 6 inches or longer.....Mine was 7 inches when captured. Live Aquaria should know this stuff and needs to have better practices to ensure survivability. I had already decided not to buy from them anymore but it’s too late for this poor beautiful specimen. I should also have known better so its on me too....

 

[Flame2hawk]

Yes sad, sorry to hear that, you did say you also have a flagfin, right. I loss a goldflake and have now have a flagfin for more than 2 years. Everyone warned me against flagfins and said goldflakes were hardier. So initially I got a goldflake, at the time it was the most expensive I had ever bought, so him passing was a hard pill to swallow.

I had a rigorous time clearing the flagfin of all parasites, sticking with it and being very observant he got through it. Presently he is an aggressive eater, and even somewhat rambunctious if not borderline bullying. the lfs in the know are amazed I have had for as long as I have.

The parasite issue is likely the cause of more losses than anything else right now, I'm mainly a predator guy and lions are pretty much 99.9% riddled with parasites. When a fish doesn't eat, stop giving him time to adjust, immediately treat for internal parasites. General cure in the water column, and provide foods that are more natural to his diet in the wild.

@chicago, stop copper and treat with general cure.

Yep. Flagfin continues to do well. HAve had him about 5 months now. He’s only about 3 1/2 inches and he started eating about 2 weeks into his Qt period. Eats robustly. Have found him to be a rather slow grower compared to my other angels. Flakey got 2 rounds of prazi and GC both in addition to f’bendazole and metro mixed in food when he ate a little. Also 30 day hypo and copper...and much mush more...it just wasn’t meant to be and as stated earlier I think there is reason why you don’t see many GF’s in hobbiest aquarium’s and when you do they usually have not had them for a long period of time. SAdly I learned the hard way....

 

[lion king]

@Flame2hawk you also touched on something about deep water collection. I'm not a fan of depp water collection, One deep water fish that was very popular a while back, and very expensive, the crosshatch trigger, I don't see doing well either. every one I've known loss them within months, but you don't hear anything about it. I know a bit about psychology, and when people spend that kind of money on a fish, they are ashamed to say it died within a few months. Crosshatch triggers also have a popensity of going blind, whether it's the more intense lighting people use in their artificial reefs or if the divers are using a little chemical help in their collection. Being from deep waters they are not used to the spectrum of light we use on our tanks. The true candy basslet is another one that's expensive and is likely better to get a poor man's version, the swales swissguard; although the candy has survived much, much better than the afore mentioned. i didn't realize the goldfalke was a deep water fish.

 

[Montagne]

Reviving this thread - has anyone tried or had any luck with Reef Nutrition R.O.E.? I haven’t been able to find any user accounts of how it compares to nutrimar ova or LRS eggs which seems unusual.

The 2” juvenile black leopard wrasse I’ve had in QT for a week is ignoring live brine, live black worms, amphipods, LRS Fertility Frenzy (which I think contains some roe) pressed into LR, frozen clams in half shell, frozen mysis and small sustainable aquatic pellets. I believe it’s negative for flukes following a FW dip where I didn’t see anything in the dip water by eye or with a microscope, but can start GC in the water column today based on this thread.

@4FordFamily @lion king @Gareth elliott @GoldeneyeRet @Pbh-reef @Flame2hawk

 

[Chris Spaulding]

awesome useful thread

what have you found goes for masstick? i know i've seen some people say copperbands love it

My Copperband will only eat Mysis until I stick some mastic on the glass and he will push everyone including PBT and Purple tang out of the way.

 

[lion king]

Reviving this thread - has anyone tried or had any luck with Reef Nutrition R.O.E.? I haven’t been able to find any user accounts of how it compares to nutrimar ova or LRS eggs which seems unusual.

The 2” juvenile black leopard wrasse I’ve had in QT for a week is ignoring live brine, live black worms, amphipods, LRS Fertility Frenzy (which I think contains some roe) pressed into LR, frozen clams in half shell, frozen mysis and small sustainable aquatic pellets. I believe it’s negative for flukes following a FW dip where I didn’t see anything in the dip water by eye or with a microscope, but can start GC in the water column today based on this thread.

@4FordFamily @lion king @Gareth elliott @GoldeneyeRet @Pbh-reef @Flame2hawk

Yes with reading all of your observations and food offerings, I would immediately treat with gc. The leopard wrasse is a species that many times does come in with internal parasites.

 

[Montagne]

I’m thinking the fish has an injury to its upper lip - it looks white and out of step with the rest of its color pattern and it’s teeth are clearly visible. Thoughts?

 

[lion king]

I’m thinking the fish has an injury to its upper lip - it looks white and out of step with the rest of its color pattern and it’s teeth are clearly visible. Thoughts?

How long have had him, it is definitely some sort of injury, It could be an injury from another fish or even bag rub from transport. While these types of injuries can turn into something serious, many times with optimum water quality and a good diet, they remedy themselves. 1st order of business would be to get him eating, it doesn't look so serious as to keep him eating. If you treat with gc you'll know in a day or two, he should start eating right away; the live foods you where offering should be no problem to start with.

 

[Miami Reef]

I have 3 moorish idols in QT.

One likes frozen brine, mysis, and sponge.

The other one like spirulina wafers.

The 3rd doesn’t eat.

 

[Gareth elliott]

I’m thinking the fish has an injury to its upper lip - it looks white and out of step with the rest of its color pattern and it’s teeth are clearly visible. Thoughts?

Mouth injuries can be very serious, and often hard to gauge how severe they are. They can inhibit a fish from eating which will stop healing. And antibiotics while can help can also be a detriment if their appetite suppression means the fish eats even less. I would probably start with Methylene Blue, appetite suppression is not a side effect with this. Another route would be Nitrofurazone + Kanamyacin.

Hopefully once its mouth is healed, it will begin to actively take live baby brine or copepods.

 

[sfin52]

Reviving this thread - has anyone tried or had any luck with Reef Nutrition R.O.E.? I haven’t been able to find any user accounts of how it compares to nutrimar ova or LRS eggs which seems unusual.

The 2” juvenile black leopard wrasse I’ve had in QT for a week is ignoring live brine, live black worms, amphipods, LRS Fertility Frenzy (which I think contains some roe) pressed into LR, frozen clams in half shell, frozen mysis and small sustainable aquatic pellets. I believe it’s negative for flukes following a FW dip where I didn’t see anything in the dip water by eye or with a microscope, but can start GC in the water column today based on this thread.

@4FordFamily @lion king @Gareth elliott @GoldeneyeRet @Pbh-reef @Flame2hawk

Try fresh minced clam oysters and fish eggs? Do you have sand for it? If not its prob extremely stressed and add some. You could always add pods as well.

 

[Montagne]

First off, thank you all for your thoughts and input!

How long have had him, it is definitely some sort of injury, It could be an injury from another fish or even bag rub from transport. While these types of injuries can turn into something serious, many times with optimum water quality and a good diet, they remedy themselves. 1st order of business would be to get him eating, it doesn't look so serious as to keep him eating. If you treat with gc you'll know in a day or two, he should start eating right away; the live foods you where offering should be no problem to start with.

Mouth injuries can be very serious, and often hard to gauge how severe they are. They can inhibit a fish from eating which will stop healing. And antibiotics while can help can also be a detriment if their appetite suppression means the fish eats even less. I would probably start with Methylene Blue, appetite suppression is not a side effect with this. Another route would be Nitrofurazone + Kanamyacin.

Hopefully once its mouth is healed, it will begin to actively take live baby brine or copepods.

I received the Black Leopard Wrasse (BLW), a citron butterfly and a lunate wrasse from an online retailer 10 days ago now. The BLW arrived in rough shape and literally spent its first 3 days lying on its side which I attributed to gill damage during shipping. After its first 30 min Methylene Blue dip (https://humble.fish/methylene-blue/) on day 3 it regained some strength and resumed swimming.

The Citron butterflyfish arrived with a prominent white mark on its upper lip that has since been receding so bag rub sounds really likely for both fish.

Yesterday, after a full day of GC in the water column, the BLW ate 4 live black worms over 3 feedings so I took this as a sign of improvement and went forward with its third methylene blue dip last night. Although it seemed to help initially, I will be discontinuing MB dips going forward since it appears to actually be causing increasing respiratory distress to the point I did not think it was going to make it through last night. The dip has been aerated for the full duration each time.

Today, however, it has been swimming along the surface of the tank for well over an hour. It's breathing heavily whenever it pauses for a break. It did this yesterday but only for about 20 minutes and ended up eating shortly afterwards.

Is this piping? I have not seen a fish do this before. I have been actively trying to keep oxygenation up via the return pump pointing at the surface, an additional air pump running a sponge filter and an Oxydator Mini.

Try fresh minced clam oysters and fish eggs? Do you have sand for it? If not its prob extremely stressed and add some. You could always add pods as well.

The only roe products I'm able to find locally is from reef nutrition, have you tried it?

I made sure to add "freshwater" sand at the suggestion of this article from Marine Collectors (https://www.marinecollectors.com/blogs/news/how-to-pt-2-success-with-leopard-wrasses) in hopes that I'll eventually get the wrasse healthy enough to medicate with copper as apparently it will not absorb it the same way aragonite sand will.

Prior to quarantining this order, the tank had been running for 6+ months so it has an active copepod and amphipod population scurrying around. I'm actually a bit discouraged the wrasse hasn't made a dent into the population of copepods on the glass. Ugh.

 

[sfin52]

First off, thank you all for your thoughts and input!



I received the Black Leopard Wrasse (BLW), a citron butterfly and a lunate wrasse from an online retailer 10 days ago now. The BLW arrived in rough shape and literally spent its first 3 days lying on its side which I attributed to gill damage during shipping. After its first 30 min Methylene Blue dip (https://humble.fish/methylene-blue/) on day 3 it regained some strength and resumed swimming.

The Citron butterflyfish arrived with a prominent white mark on its upper lip that has since been receding so bag rub sounds really likely for both fish.

Yesterday, after a full day of GC in the water column, the BLW ate 4 live black worms over 3 feedings so I took this as a sign of improvement and went forward with its third methylene blue dip last night. Although it seemed to help initially, I will be discontinuing MB dips going forward since it appears to actually be causing increasing respiratory distress to the point I did not think it was going to make it through last night. The dip has been aerated for the full duration each time.

Today, however, it has been swimming along the surface of the tank for well over an hour. It's breathing heavily whenever it pauses for a break. It did this yesterday but only for about 20 minutes and ended up eating shortly afterwards.

Is this piping? I have not seen a fish do this before. I have been actively trying to keep oxygenation up via the return pump pointing at the surface, an additional air pump running a sponge filter and an Oxydator Mini.





The only roe products I'm able to find locally is from reef nutrition, have you tried it?

I made sure to add "freshwater" sand at the suggestion of this article from Marine Collectors (https://www.marinecollectors.com/blogs/news/how-to-pt-2-success-with-leopard-wrasses) in hopes that I'll eventually get the wrasse healthy enough to medicate with copper as apparently it will not absorb it the same way aragonite sand will.

Prior to quarantining this order, the tank had been running for 6+ months so it has an active copepod and amphipod population scurrying around. I'm actually a bit discouraged the wrasse hasn't made a dent into the population of copepods on the glass. Ugh.

Thats the type of eggs I get. Fresh muscles, clams and oysters from the local fish market.