Trident: CA Rise, MG Drop, ALK Stable?

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Maybe someone can shed a little light on my Trident/DOS+DDR dilemma.
So for the last 2-3 days I get Alerts that the CA is out of range and it continues to climb due to DOS continuing dose CA, even with the Trident based dosing task set that it should have discontinued dosing if level was outside of range. The issue started Sunday evening after I dosed Mg level up from 1281 to 1314* per Trident results*( OG Salifert was closer to a 20 point swing). ALK during this time was between 9.03 and 9.07.
^Monday 00:34
MG 1314
CA 410
^Tuesday 00:17
MG 1308
CA 522 - DOSCA toggle set OFF by Me
^Tuesday 12:34
MG 1302
CA 446
^Wednesday 00:16
MG 1267
CA 569!
^Wednesday 12:17
MG 1257
CA 603

DOS_CA toggle OFF set Tuesday morning, but Calcium continues to rise and MG starts to plummet at the same time? About 30% remaining in MG and CA reagents. All other parameters remained consistent?

Any idea why?
 
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So manual tests done, all three CA come in around 400-420 and Mg were all 1400 area.

In another thread it was mentioned that the Reagents could be low or the placement of the intake tube is causing a low amount of reagent to be taken in for testing causing a spike in the results. If the CA readings are high due to lowered reagent intake what would be the cause of the sudden drop in Mg?
 
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Did you calibrated it recently?

No, and actually since a few days prior I have tried not alter the system in anyway. I switched to Trident based dosing on July 3 and added my normal Mg dose on Sunday. At that point the levels looked normal at the next test point, and the following tests are where things went a little sideways. The reagent levels showed around 30% left for the CA and Mg, and the ALK was near 90%, as I recently had to replace that reagent.
 
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As of this AM the the the CA shows 627 and manual test still at 400. The Mg has lowered from 1308 at 00:17 Wednesday to 1251 00:17 Thursday.

If the reagents were low causing the CA to test high, then shouldn’t the Mg reading be rising also if the reagent is low?
 

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While input from the forum may help, have you opened a ticket with Neptune yet? Getting an official answer to the question then sharing it here would be appreciated :)
 
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While input from the forum may help, have you opened a ticket with Neptune yet? Getting an official answer to the question then sharing it here would be appreciated :)

No direct support ticket with Neptune yet, however @NeptunePaul has said that it is likely the reagents are low enough that the intake tube is pulling a little air in during test procedure and causing the altered readings. If replacing the reagents doesn’t correct the issue check the intake standpipe assembly to ensure it’s well fitted to the tubing. Finally, if it is still not working properly contact the support team for further assistance.

I plan on replacing reagent B and C this evening and will update accordingly.
 

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I've found that readings can get erratic as you get to the bottom of each bottle.
Especially if you bypass the Replace warning and keep using the last bit, as I do.

You can replace just B and C reagents by doing each manually.
Currently there is no Task for replacing B and C but not A.

Also run a couple of tests and then do a calibration after replacing the reagents.
 
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I've found that readings can get erratic as you get to the bottom of each bottle.
Especially if you bypass the Replace warning and keep using the last bit, as I do.

You can replace just B and C reagents by doing each manually.
Currently there is no Task for replacing B and C but not A.

Also run a couple of tests and then do a calibration after replacing the reagents.
Are you bypassing the replace warning because you aren’t getting the full amount of tests or because you want extra?
 

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Are you bypassing the replace warning because you aren’t getting the full amount of tests or because you want extra?

When the Replace alert is generated, there is still a substantial amount of reagent left in the bottle. Perhaps 10 tests worth or more.
I'm not willing to throw that out, if the test numbers being generated still seem right.
All you need to do is Reset that reagent bottle, and the Apex thinks there a full one in there and continues testing.
Wait a few days to use up most of the rest of the reagent, and then do the proper reagent replacement Task (or manually).
You can even wait until it Errors out, sucking air after the last dregs of reagent are gone.
It won't 'hurt' anything, but I don't recommend it. The last couple of measurements may be way off.
 
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So I replaced the B and C, thru Trident configure menu as mentioned above. Now the readings are on target. Seemingly decent amount left in the bottles so I checked prior to replacement for proper tube placement inside the bottles.

I’ll wait a day or two and perform another calibration with the provided solution in the new reagent pack also.
 

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@ADAM did you have this issue again near the end of Reagents B &C? I’m at the end of my second round of B & C and CA reading has shot up over 600 again within a couple of days with no changes to dosing or livestock. This has happened at about week 6 or 7 the only 2 times that I’ve replaced these reagents. The last time I replaced reagents and calibrated so I’m not sure which one fixed the issue. I guess I’ll replace reagents and test before calibrating this time. Is this happening to anyone else? It raises the operating cost by 25% if only 6 out of 8 weeks of tests are reliable.
 
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This kind of thing is precisely why I think it is a bad idea to be dosing automatically as a response to trident readings. I’ve had mine now since almost the start. A reagent set lasts for me about 6 weeks, so I’m on my third batch. In both prior sets, Ca readings went seriously wonky as the reagents approached empty. Got lots of alerts but since I’m not doing auto dosing, no way to actually mess up levels. It’s hard for Ca to go wrong quickly (as well as Mg) so changing levels are almost always measurement errors. Alk can certainly go south quickly, which is why many experienced reefers only tested that and used it as a proxy for the other two (particularly if you are running a calcium reactor). The benefit to regular testing of Ca and Mg is really only useful IMO as a way to detect dosing pump failures or the affect of something like a sulfur reactor.

BTW, I had suggested to Neptune that they should allow users to disable auto dosing when the number of remaining tests got below, say, 20. Not sure if this is possible or not.
 

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This kind of thing is precisely why I think it is a bad idea to be dosing automatically as a response to trident readings. I’ve had mine now since almost the start. A reagent set lasts for me about 6 weeks, so I’m on my third batch. In both prior sets, Ca readings went seriously wonky as the reagents approached empty. Got lots of alerts but since I’m not doing auto dosing, no way to actually mess up levels. It’s hard for Ca to go wrong quickly (as well as Mg) so changing levels are almost always measurement errors. Alk can certainly go south quickly, which is why many experienced reefers only tested that and used it as a proxy for the other two (particularly if you are running a calcium reactor). The benefit to regular testing of Ca and Mg is really only useful IMO as a way to detect dosing pump failures or the affect of something like a sulfur reactor.

BTW, I had suggested to Neptune that they should allow users to disable auto dosing when the number of remaining tests got below, say, 20. Not sure if this is possible or not.

I was thinking the same thing about not using the Auto Dosing based on Trident but after doing some research on this issue I found that the Rising Ca issue is known and there are safeguards in place for this if you’re auto dosing using the Trident. When setting up auto dosing it asks how much Ca you currently use to maintain your target level. If your Ca changes drastically suddenly then it defaults back to that amount. Neptune discusses both of these issues starting at about the 45 minute mark in this video.
 
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This kind of thing is precisely why I think it is a bad idea to be dosing automatically as a response to trident readings. I’ve had mine now since almost the start. A reagent set lasts for me about 6 weeks, so I’m on my third batch. In both prior sets, Ca readings went seriously wonky as the reagents approached empty. Got lots of alerts but since I’m not doing auto dosing, no way to actually mess up levels. It’s hard for Ca to go wrong quickly (as well as Mg) so changing levels are almost always measurement errors. Alk can certainly go south quickly, which is why many experienced reefers only tested that and used it as a proxy for the other two (particularly if you are running a calcium reactor). The benefit to regular testing of Ca and Mg is really only useful IMO as a way to detect dosing pump failures or the affect of something like a sulfur reactor.

BTW, I had suggested to Neptune that they should allow users to disable auto dosing when the number of remaining tests got below, say, 20. Not sure if this is possible or not.

The way my Trident based dosing is set it will not change the set dosing amount due to readings. It will only stop the dosing if the reading are out of the set max.
 

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I have recently been having issues with my Trident and controlled DOS. I would guesstimate that my reagents were about 4/5ths empty when this all started. I couldn't understand why the ALK kept climbing, even though I had set the limit on the program. Some of you may ask why I let it get this high. The reason is grad school and not much free time, hence me purchasing this expensive system on a student budget.

So I ordered new reagents and lo and behold they had a new protocol for the new reagents. One of which takes a lot of regent to process (see how much I have left and they are new)... They have you run three consecutive tests after replacing the bottles... The instructions were to contact support if they did not fall within their acceptable range. Mine did, so I proceeded with the calibration step (Negative deflection on graph). This causes me to believe something is up with the regents, or some sort of testing drift.

I hope this smooths out because I truly love this system given everything going on in my life right now. I am hoping I am in the clear now with my sps, especially because the spike was over days.
Screen Shot 2019-09-08 at 10.11.45 AM.png

Screen Shot 2019-09-08 at 10.05.33 AM.png
Reef Tank.jpg
 

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I just had the exact same issue, my calcium and Mg jumped from 440 to 750 and 1340 to 1100 in 3-4 days according to the trident. I got the replace reagent 2 notification so I went ahead and did both the CA and MG, and now they test normal again. Didn’t notice anything weird and there was a good amount of reagent still left in both bottles.
 
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