Triton and Pax Bellum ARID

Discussion in 'Triton Applied Reef Bioscience' started by Newyorkerx, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. Newyorkerx

    Newyorkerx Member

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    In planning a new reef with limited space under the stand, finding room for a sufficient large refugium is a significant impediment to using the Triton system. However, I am wondering if the Pax Bellum ARID (which takes up much less space) would be an adequate substitute for a large refugium. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
     

  2. BigKid4788

    BigKid4788 Well-Known Member

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    Would definately be a good substitute if you have the $$$$
     
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  3. aaron23

    aaron23 Valuable Member

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    those reactors are pricy but pretty awesome.
     
  4. gpwdr

    gpwdr Well-Known Member

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    We use a lot of different kinds of algae with the triton method. Will this work with the pax?
     
  5. joefishUC

    joefishUC Active Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Hello.

    You can certainly run the pax bellum in lieu of a traditional algae sump with the Triton Method. Since we are just beginning to experiment with these units on triton tanks we encourage all who do try it to give us feedback. I recommend placing a red algae in the lower chamber of the unit followed by chaeto on the rest of the chambers. The reason being is to allow the fast growing, nutrient sucking chaeto to get second versus first crack at the nutrients flowing up the column of water.
     
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  6. gpwdr

    gpwdr Well-Known Member

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    Good to here from you Joe!
     
  7. dodgerblew

    dodgerblew Valuable Member

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    I have one. I love it!
     
  8. joefishUC

    joefishUC Active Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    The units are just starting to become available through Uniquecorals.com and Manhattan Aquariums. As production is ramped up the units will be more readily available. I've installed a few of them already and they really do grow chaeto like mad. I will be experimenting with other types of algae soon and will let you guys know how it goes.
     
  9. dodgerblew

    dodgerblew Valuable Member

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    Growing cheato like mad is an understatement
     
  10. las

    las Active Member

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    I'm sure they are great but the price gouging is absolutely shameful. I read they were half the price before unique corals became the sole distributor.
     
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  11. joefishUC

    joefishUC Active Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Ouch. I'm sorry you have such a negative view on such a great thing. There is quite a bit of mis-information in your comment which I would like to straighten out. The price was set by the manufacturer (Pax Bellum), not Unique. Unique is handling retail sales but is not the sole distributor. People can still purchase directly from Pax Bellum and the price will be the same as if purchased through Unique. Unique is simply helping a new company at this point get their product into the marketplace and assisting with questions, parts gathering, etc.

    The units have undergone significant upgrades since the first models were sold and the price reflects this. Pax bellum was creating the units as a small side business and offering them only slightly above cost to test demand. Production is now a full time thing and overhead and the reality of become a true manufacturer necessitated that there would be a price increase. Although they aren't cheap, I do believe you get what you pay for with these units- everyone who has received one loves the craftsmanship.
     
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  12. Taso1

    Taso1 Member

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    big difference between a traditional refugium, an algae scrubber, and this. This is nice but, most importantly, you do have to care for your algae/chaeto. Its also expensive. Very sophisticated, and that's nice if you are into "mechanical" things and equipment, plastic, acrylic, that's nice, but personally I'm into fish and corals, not equipment.
     
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  13. las

    las Active Member

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    https://www.reefs.com/blog/2016/04/01/turbo-charged-algae-scrubbing-pax-bellum-arid/

    Here's the clip.... I like my refugium. I cant wrap my brain around dosing nitrate to keep my chateo growing when the whole point of the unit is to lower nitrate and phosphate. To me it makes no sense. Just my two cents... And if this product is helping you keep a better reef tank, then I think that is a great thing. To each their own...
     
  14. vm70

    vm70 Member

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    The Pax-Bellum( or any aggressive algae-based filtration in general) may not be absolutely necessary or justifiable as an investment in all cases. However, I will give two examples of tanks where, if used properly, it can make a difference: predator tanks and continuous feeding NPS(non photosynthetic corals). In both these cases, large amounts of nitrate, and especially phosphate, are continuously introduced by feeding.

    Here's my experience:
    I've been personally keeping an NPS tank for about three years, and I can say that could not win the battle with high phosphate. No matter what I've tried(Zeo, biopellets) I had to use large amounts of iron-based phosphate remover(1lbs for 100 gal tank changed weekly) in order to keep PO4 at an acceptable 0.2-0.3ppm(while NO3 ~0ppm). For me, this is unsustainable financially.

    The first attempt was to re-balance nutrients by supplementing NO3 and adding NOPOX , but ALL my gorgonians immediately stopped opening, which I attributed as a side effect of excessive bacterial bloom. I retried again a few weeks later, after they eventually recovered, but got similar reaction.
    Fast forward, I switched to a large LED lit DIY algae scrubber and increased flow + lighting on my 25 gal refugium, while starting NO3 + soluble iron dosing. Within 2 months, I was able to remove PO4 reactor, and PO4 remained stable at about 0.1 ppm. I clean half of the scrubber every 4-5 days. My gorgonians stay open at least 12h/day.
    My conclusion is that, in high-nutrient environment, aggressive algae filtration can be used in confidence, with much lower risk than bacteria filtration. I can expect this kind of effects are also achievable with a Pax-Bellum reactor.
     
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  15. slosoak

    slosoak Member Partner Member 2019

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    I have one of the first pax-bellum reactors, been on my tank for several years. I cannot maintain chaeto in it at all.It slowly dies off and then if I don't clean it hair algae grows instead. I have this on a 50 gallon tank so it is oversized. My tests kits show a phosphate of .06 mg/l and a nitrate of 12ppm according to the idip tester. I also have been using the triton method for 10 months. I am waiting on the results from my latest triton test. I feel I don't have enough of a nutrient load to maintain the chaeto but hair algae is still around.
     
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  16. CMO

    CMO Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Any recent feed back on running the ARID reactor with Triton? I'm looking to do this and have the following questions:

    - Triton calls for 10x turnover whereas the N 24 ARID reactor calls for a max flow of 250 gph through the unit (for 120-250 gallon tank). Does it still make sense to run the tank at 10x when the flow through the reactor is far less?
    - Does the Triton elements dosing replace the Pax Bellum supplements sufficiently for strong chaeto growth?
     
  17. pecan2phat

    pecan2phat Well-Known Member

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    Your restricted from how much flow you can run through the 24” model due to the 1/2” fittings but I would say you need a little more then 250 gph or at least a 250 gph pump that has better head pressure then a maxi-jet 1200.
    With these reactors, the better flow keeps the chaeto from developing nuisance algae within the chaeto.
     
  18. joefishUC

    joefishUC Active Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Hello. The triton method calls for a very high turnover rate for many reasons- Here are some reasons why.
    1- To prevent detritus from settling throughout the sump and refugium.
    2- To allow for the full dissolution of the Triton Elements into the water column, preventing precipitation, etc.
    3- To ensure that the water is fully mixed throughout the entire system with no dead spots.
    4- To drive off Co2, increase ORP and Ph.

    Since the ARID technically is not the same as running a Triton style refugium, (ARID relies on a single species of algae that is harvested, Triton relies on a diverse bed that is largely untouched) the recommended flow through the entire setup could arguably change as well. I would follow the advice given above and make sure the flow rate through the unit is adequate enough to minimize the occurrence of nuisance algae. A minimum of 250GPH. Running a high turnover through the system regardless will still help a bunch in terms of what Triton recommends.

    The Triton Core 7 line is sufficient enough off to adequately provide the necessary major and minor elements for a diverse reef tank with the emphasis on SPS. Since each tank is different, individual element testing and spot dosing is always needed to more closely hit the target NSW values. The Base Element version of Core 7 will satisfy the needs of a properly sized refugium or an ARID as well. Since the elements that are contained within the PAX supplements (Iron and Manganese) occur at levels found in seawater that is below/at the LOD for Triton ICP testing, one should experiment with additional dosing to get the growth and nutrient levels they desire for their particular system. With regular use of the Core 7 Base Elements you should feel confident that these two elements will not be limiting to growth. Experimentation with individual dosing is still always recommended to achieve the best results. ICP testing will provide relief that this experimenting is not being overdone.
     
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  19. CMO

    CMO Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Joe thanks for the great response! Very helpful and makes good sense now. Thanks!
     
  20. jcl123

    jcl123 Active Member

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    Good information joefishUC

    I also have been trying to decide on the ARID. At the moment I am leaning toward just sticking with a standard Triton setup, I can always add the reactor later, perhaps when there are allot more people using them, and maybe even specifically with the Triton system.

    I am a beginner with reef tanks, so I would like to have the guidance of Triton, without it being up to me how to figure out variations.
     
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