Triton/ Ati water test comparison

[Shaun Sweeney]

Following. I use local ocean water with 20% addition of salt. Wondering what my parameters will look like and if using real ocean water will make for better trace elements.

 

[Scott.h]

Following. I use local ocean water with 20% addition of salt. Wondering what my parameters will look like and if using real ocean water will make for better trace elements.

I wouldn't think possibly, depending on how it's filtered. Filtering might remove some trace but I'd be interested to know.

 

[MartinWaite]

Just some information on these tests. There is also marinlab who do aquarium water testing. They have. Oath web site and Facebook page.
The main checks that are done by ATI and not Triton are not done using the ICP gauge they are done using bench gauges.

I have seen several comparisons between some and all of these ICP tests and to me if you test your water at the at the same time as you take your sample then you know where your preferred ICP test is to your tests then using the same firm for your ICP all the time will show you any trends and movements will be more meaning full. At the end of the day these gauges are not calibrated every day or probably not every week maybe more like quarterly as from what I understand it takes a long time to calibrate the gauge and to do it more frequently would end up costing more and then they would get behind in the testing.
The feedback they all give is based on using their products and your tank being setup their way ect. So you need to use the feedback as a guide to help you get you system back to where they think it should be and you Will no doubt do it your own way knowing how your system works for you. To me swapping quarterly is only going to get some people wondering which test is right when they all give different results from the same water. Do you add this that and the other just because you've swapped your company for doing you ICP ?

 

[Forsaken77]

Seems like Tritons test kits are expired

 

[Danny Venditti]

Just some information on these tests. There is also marinlab who do aquarium water testing. They have. Oath web site and Facebook page.
The main checks that are done by ATI and not Triton are not done using the ICP gauge they are done using bench gauges.

I have seen several comparisons between some and all of these ICP tests and to me if you test your water at the at the same time as you take your sample then you know where your preferred ICP test is to your tests then using the same firm for your ICP all the time will show you any trends and movements will be more meaning full. At the end of the day these gauges are not calibrated every day or probably not every week maybe more like quarterly as from what I understand it takes a long time to calibrate the gauge and to do it more frequently would end up costing more and then they would get behind in the testing.
The feedback they all give is based on using their products and your tank being setup their way ect. So you need to use the feedback as a guide to help you get you system back to where they think it should be and you Will no doubt do it your own way knowing how your system works for you. To me swapping quarterly is only going to get some people wondering which test is right when they all give different results from the same water. Do you add this that and the other just because you've swapped your company for doing you ICP ?

I mainly monitor more for heavy metals thank anything and also swap to get a R/O reading every other quarter since Triton does not test R/O. my levels are fairly stable and generally I look more at how coral is doing rather than any test. I would make no adjustments based on any test unless a critical level is way off. Regardless you cannot compare test results straight up being 3 months apart unless you start to see a long term trend of a specific element being off.

 

[ATI Aquaristik]

... At the end of the day these gauges are not calibrated every day or probably not every week maybe more like quarterly as from what I understand it takes a long time to calibrate the gauge and to do it more frequently would end up costing more and then they would get behind in the testing.....

That is not how it works in our Lab. I'll describe how it actually works in our ATI lab. In fact, both ICP and IC machines are calibrated daily in our laboratory. With the ICP machine, this is even done several times a day.
Every day we start with the same working routine. First the machine is conditioned. This means that seawater is fed into the system. This is important to ensure that the whole sample loading system is free of contamination and that the system runs stable. Next, we do someting that we call Icalisation. Here we check in the graph if the measurements of each element (for Example iodine, Calcium etc.) are really taken on the peak.
After the machine has been conditioned and icalized, we can start with the calibration.
After the machine has been calibrated, a known sample is measured. If all values of this control sample have a smaller deviation than 1-2%, we start with testing of the first customer seawater sample. But this procedure is not enough for the output of multiple tests. Something can happen during the tests which causes incorrect or drifted values. To check this, a known control sample is tested after every third customer sample. If all values in the reference control sample are measured again with a lower tolerance than 1-2%, we know that the previously measured customer samples are ok.
Or in other words..... We always measure a known control/reference sample after 3 seawater samples to ensure the accuracy of the other measurements. However, if a control/reference sample has a higher deviation for a value than 2%, a new calibration starts immediately and the samples are measured again. In this way we make sure that all samples are measured and controlled within 1-2% deviation.
Since we have very strict tolerances, it can happen that we have to calibrate our ICP several times in one day. I hope I have given you a better idea of what’s really going on in our professional lab. Of course I can't speak for other laboratories. But we work according to these strict standards as described above.

 

[ATI North America]

At the end of the day these gauges are not calibrated every day or probably not every week maybe more like quarterly as from what I understand it takes a long time to calibrate the gauge and to do it more frequently would end up costing more and then they would get behind in the testing.

Actually, ATI tests an industry sample every 3rd test. If the device is out of spec the entire machine is calibrated You are right, not every day, not every week,, Its every 3rd test!

 

[ATI North America]

A few other things to point out:

How important is RO testing? We have discovered 30% of our RO tests result in silicon or metals. How pure is your "pure water"?

Every 3rd test is an industry standard to ensure accuracy.

The test is only as good as the person running the machine. Our Dr Ben Funk is a PhD aquarium hobbyist.

We use multiple devices, not just ICP which is what allows us to test for 8 additional items vs our competitors (Salinity, Nitrate, Alkalinity etc)

We do ship from California to Germany every Friday. If you send your sample to arrive in California by Friday you will likely have results the following Tuesday.

Our needs have already grown, we now operate 2 ICP-OES machines in Germany and unlike our competitors we operate the highest quality machines available the "Spectro Acros".

As previously stated, we do include a shipping label (currently just USA although we are working for some Canadian options).

It was clear in many of the posts that ATI Labs is more than just ICP, and more than just testing. The ATI Essentials product line is a 3 part dosing system that contains 28 elements that are dosed to your system. It is very easy, you simply test alkalinity. If your alk goes up, you dose less daily. If your alk goes down you dose more daily until you find your tank's consumption rate. Once complete you only need to test periodically to fine too as your tank grows and demand increases.

https://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_Ess...nesium_Supplements-ATI-UZ21810-FIADAC-vi.html

 

[MartinWaite]

That is not how it works in our Lab. I'll describe how it actually works in our ATI lab. In fact, both ICP and IC machines are calibrated daily in our laboratory. With the ICP machine, this is even done several times a day.
Every day we start with the same working routine. First the machine is conditioned. This means that seawater is fed into the system. This is important to ensure that the whole sample loading system is free of contamination and that the system runs stable. Next, we do someting that we call Icalisation. Here we check in the graph if the measurements of each element (for Example iodine, Calcium etc.) are really taken on the peak.
After the machine has been conditioned and icalized, we can start with the calibration.
After the machine has been calibrated, a known sample is measured. If all values of this control sample have a smaller deviation than 1-2%, we start with testing of the first customer seawater sample. But this procedure is not enough for the output of multiple tests. Something can happen during the tests which causes incorrect or drifted values. To check this, a known control sample is tested after every third customer sample. If all values in the reference control sample are measured again with a lower tolerance than 1-2%, we know that the previously measured customer samples are ok.
Or in other words..... We always measure a known control/reference sample after 3 seawater samples to ensure the accuracy of the other measurements. However, if a control/reference sample has a higher deviation for a value than 2%, a new calibration starts immediately and the samples are measured again. In this way we make sure that all samples are measured and controlled within 1-2% deviation.
Since we have very strict tolerances, it can happen that we have to calibrate our ICP several times in one day. I hope I have given you a better idea of what’s really going on in our professional lab. Of course I can't speak for other laboratories. But we work according to these strict standards as described above.

Firstly apologies I was going on what I'd watched and read so was quite shocked to read your reply as the article I had read said it took quite a while to calibrate the gauge.
It's a shame that people don't seem to know about the system you use and makes interesting reading to understand what checks you actually do to ensure that the results are to such a high standard and I'm sure it would make a good selling point as every conversation I've seen the difference in results is a common denominator and that reply you have put above would resolve a lot of unknown about and has made up my mind with regards to getting a test done and who I will be going with to get it done as what I'd read and heard of previous put me off getting my water tested so thank you ATI Aquaristik.

 

[Danny Venditti]

A few other things to point out:

How important is RO testing? We have discovered 30% of our RO tests result in silicon or metals. How pure is your "pure water"?

Every 3rd test is an industry standard to ensure accuracy.

The test is only as good as the person running the machine. Our Dr Ben Funk is a PhD aquarium hobbyist.

We use multiple devices, not just ICP which is what allows us to test for 8 additional items vs our competitors (Salinity, Nitrate, Alkalinity etc)

We do ship from California to Germany every Friday. If you send your sample to arrive in California by Friday you will likely have results the following Tuesday.

Our needs have already grown, we now operate 2 ICP-OES machines in Germany and unlike our competitors we operate the highest quality machines available the "Spectro Acros".

As previously stated, we do include a shipping label (currently just USA although we are working for some Canadian options).

It was clear in many of the posts that ATI Labs is more than just ICP, and more than just testing. The ATI Essentials product line is a 3 part dosing system that contains 28 elements that are dosed to your system. It is very easy, you simply test alkalinity. If your alk goes up, you dose less daily. If your alk goes down you dose more daily until you find your tank's consumption rate. Once complete you only need to test periodically to fine too as your tank grows and demand increases.

https://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_Ess...nesium_Supplements-ATI-UZ21810-FIADAC-vi.html

I sincerely want to thank you for jumping into the discussion and providing the clarity and details around how the tests are actually conducted in relation to the calibration. Those kinds of details help devoted reefers make informed decisions on which products they use.

 

[Danny Venditti]

A few other things to point out:

How important is RO testing? We have discovered 30% of our RO tests result in silicon or metals. How pure is your "pure water"?

Every 3rd test is an industry standard to ensure accuracy.

The test is only as good as the person running the machine. Our Dr Ben Funk is a PhD aquarium hobbyist.

We use multiple devices, not just ICP which is what allows us to test for 8 additional items vs our competitors (Salinity, Nitrate, Alkalinity etc)

We do ship from California to Germany every Friday. If you send your sample to arrive in California by Friday you will likely have results the following Tuesday.

Our needs have already grown, we now operate 2 ICP-OES machines in Germany and unlike our competitors we operate the highest quality machines available the "Spectro Acros".

As previously stated, we do include a shipping label (currently just USA although we are working for some Canadian options).

It was clear in many of the posts that ATI Labs is more than just ICP, and more than just testing. The ATI Essentials product line is a 3 part dosing system that contains 28 elements that are dosed to your system. It is very easy, you simply test alkalinity. If your alk goes up, you dose less daily. If your alk goes down you dose more daily until you find your tank's consumption rate. Once complete you only need to test periodically to fine too as your tank grows and demand increases.

https://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_Ess...nesium_Supplements-ATI-UZ21810-FIADAC-vi.html

In addition please DM me and I will provide my address for you to send me my free T5/LED hybrid ;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin

 

[drblakjak55]

Following. Just sent off my samples to ATI.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A few other things to point out:

How important is RO testing? We have discovered 30% of our RO tests result in silicon or metals. How pure is your "pure water"?
]

That’s likely true, but IMO, the question is whether giving people such information without any proper guidance is more trouble than benefit.

Neither silica nor phosphate are the type of thing to avoid at all costs. The low amount many people have are not typically any issue in 0 ppm TDS water, yet they are scared into spending money to “solve the problem”.

Almost never is phosphate in RO/DI significant to the tank relative to foods, and silica is only ever a concern if diatoms are at problematic levels.

 

[ATI North America]

That’s likely true, but IMO, the question is whether giving people such information without any proper guidance is more trouble than benefit.

Neither silica nor phosphate are the type of thing to avoid at all costs. The low amount many people have are not typically any issue in 0 ppm TDS water, yet they are scared into spending money to “solve the problem”.

Almost never is phosphate in RO/DI significant to the tank relative to foods, and silica is only ever a concern if diatoms are at problematic levels.

I discovered my RODI water had 33,249 µg/l of silicon, I think that's pretty helpful to know our tap water is extremely high in silicon and more frequent DI resin changes are required to keep the numbers at bay. I did spend some money adding an additional DI resin canister due to this information.

IMO ignorance is not greater than being informed, and we aren't trying to scare anyone into buying anything (we don't even sell RODI equipment).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I discovered my RODI water had 33,249 µg/l of silicon, I think that's pretty helpful to know our tap water is extremely high in silicon and more frequent DI resin changes are required to keep the numbers at bay. I did spend some money adding an additional DI resin canister due to this information.

IMO ignorance is not greater than being informed, and we aren't trying to scare anyone into buying anything (we don't even sell RODI equipment).

Was that zero ppm TDS water? 33 ppm silicon? 71 ppm silica? After RO/DI? Seem quite unusual, if accurate. Maybe you just needed to replace a spent DI.

What about someone with 1,000 ug/L? What about 300 ug/L? 20 ug/L? SHould folks spend money to reduce those?

Without guidance, I do not agree that more information is always desirable.

 

[ATI North America]

This is what was on my report: "Device needs service. Resin should be renewed. The highest silicon value I've ever seen"

And yes, the DI was very old so more than likely its close to what is coming from the tap.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is what was on my report: "Device needs service. Resin should be renewed. The highest silicon value I've ever seen"

And yes, the DI was very old so more than likely its close to what is coming from the tap.

OK. FWIW, a recently depleted DI can actually release more silicate than is in the source tap water.

 

[ATI North America]

OK. FWIW, a recently depleted DI can actually release more silicate than is in the source tap water.

Yikes now you make me curious on my tap vs previous report

 

[Bos]

Hi, I was thinking about doing Triton method and came across this thread on the icp tests.
For the Triton icp, its pretty straight forward in that they provide all the 'dosing' requirements...Core7 etc

If I did use the the ATI version of the test instead, do ATI provide a similar 'dosing scheme'?

 

[Lasse]

I discovered my RODI water had 33,249 µg/l of silicon,

Are you using the Europan way of seperat decimals and to seperate thousand? Most Europan use , as decimal seperator and . as thousand seperator - In the US and GB it is the other way around. If you indeed us the US/GB standard - your value correspond to more than 33 ppm - unlikely in RODI water. I think you mean 33.249 µg/l (in the US/GB standard) and that´s of no concern for me. My Si level - in the aquarium - is around 300 µg/l

Sincerely Lasse