Triton method rant

[Hunter S Thompson]

Triton represents a possible path to a future of reefkeeping that changes literally EVERYTHING. Also "IT AIN'T".
It is NOT (as it claims) a reef keeping "method" or "system".
The Triton "method" is actually nothing but the Berlin method with measured dosing.
It is sad that they are selling it this way. Because behind the measure is the answer.
If Triton or other similar companies can start collecting and sharing data about successful husbandry, it will be ground shifting in the hobby/profession.
Nearly everyone with success has some kind of refugium, maybe with or without a protein skimmer, and some kind of goal
Now, what does Miracle Mud do to your water over a 2 year period?
What does a Deep Sand Bed do over a two year period?
Is your Protein Skimmer helping or hurting, or how many hours a day should you run it?
Does some amount of Phosphate help some corals and kill others? Which ones? What amount is optimum for your tank?
What does too much Boron do to your water quality? How about too little? Lets face it, you DO NOT KNOW if your corals like more or less or NO Boron, or Plutonium for that matter.
But once the data comes in from the collective community, we will know. IF (a big if) it is collected and used somehow. Which is up to us.

Triton does not represent a reef keeping "method", it represents a data collecting opportunity. It's up to us to figure out how to use it.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

well, yea.

 

[hybridazn]

Might want to check the forum rules bud, altering the spelling of words to be able to swear is a no no.

 

[d2mini]

I've been doing some research on it and they actually explain that it's not a "method" per say and that it is completely open to interpretation to change it as you see fit. They are completely open in explaining that they provide you with the base elements to get you close and then the tests provide you with the rest of the information and steps to take to make any needed corrections to reach NSW standards.
It's similar to dosing two part but with more elements involved. They also say they don't know what many of the elements DO for the various organisms, just that they are part of NSW.
So the whole point of Triton is to keep your tank water as close to NSW as possible, which is pretty much impossible to do with just water changes and two-part dosing (or CaRx).
And the refugium aspect is based around using a LARGE refugium or larger than most people tend to employ. It's just natural filtration implemented better than many tend to do.

IMHO, at least from what I've found in my research, it makes sense and can't be compared to Miracle Mud or other snake oil type products.
They are just trying to take the guesswork out of it and provide a simple and natural way to better recreate the ecosystem we try to replicate in our tanks.

 

[nervousmonkey]

+1. More data on what elements we have in our tanks is a great place to start but in order to create a good dataset from which to glean relevant information for one's own tank and effects on livestock, we would need a scientific method of collecting data and the requisite database just to start. There are so many more variables that must be taken into consideration when trying to predict outcomes of a particular tank. True that Triton has started a way to collect the data, but we would need a centralized, standardized data repository from which to start building outcomes-based tank analytics, where predictive analytics algorithms could be employed with the right data; e.g., non-anecdotal evidence (though that could be helpful as well). We have a long way to go to get there however. Without defining requirements for such a solution, there has to be an incentive for private industry to undertake that costly an endeavor. To be completely fair to Triton, they are pretty transparent with their methods, solutions, etc. Triton started what could be a revolution, but the collective knowledge of people within the industry, people here for example, needs to be tapped into, stored and then analyzed with some rather advanced statistical tools in order to even start such a project. Project Reef Analytics. LOL

 

[chefjpaul]

Its called evolution.
Berlin to Triton, same as airplanes to space flight.

It will keep evolving.

To join a forum just to rip apart a company is not very just, especially since this particular "method" is a great source of information, techniques and knowledge for a lot of hobbyist.

Many people are starting to utilize these techniques to gain knowledge of seawater chemistry while creating a consistent bio type ecosystem, not everyone is born with the knowledge of ocean water chemistry, its a great tool.

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

d2mini, I think you undersell them. Their recommended dosing is the same as we already dose, but they can tell you when and how much. This is nice if you are in a situation where a water change is not practical. And lets be honest, most water changes happen for no reason other than random guess. Some people do 10% a week, some do 10% a year.
I think your idea that Triton helps you keep your water as close as NSW is missing the point. We are old fashioned in our thinking that things have to be "natural" or our goal is "Natural Sea Water". My goal in reef keeping has NEVER been Natural Sea Water. Thats obtainable the first day you mix your first batch of unnatural salt crystals into your local filtered water. You can solve "problems" by having higher or lower salinity. You can solve problems by introducing or removing certain metals (even heavy metals). If you want NSW from the gulf of mexico you can grow redfish and algae. If you want NSW from the red sea, it's going to be different.

 

[Hunter S Thompson]

Chefjpaul, I didn't join to "rip apart a company". I've been here for years. But also I think I just supported that company. Definitely not ripping anything.

 

[chefjpaul]

Cool

 

[TaylorPilot]

I like your point about NSW. It is a good starting point, and something to aspire to at first, but as someone becomes more advanced, it may be better to tweak things to see if you can get better than that. I kind of equate it to air conditioning. Just ask your dog if he would rather sleep in the hot Texas sun (nature) or your air conditioned couch.

 

[d2mini]

d2mini, I think you undersell them. Their recommended dosing is the same as we already dose, but they can tell you when and how much. This is nice if you are in a situation where a water change is not practical. And lets be honest, most water changes happen for no reason other than random guess. Some people do 10% a week, some do 10% a year.
I think your idea that Triton helps you keep your water as close as NSW is missing the point. We are old fashioned in our thinking that things have to be "natural" or our goal is "Natural Sea Water". My goal in reef keeping has NEVER been Natural Sea Water. Thats obtainable the first day you mix your first batch of unnatural salt crystals into your local filtered water. You can solve "problems" by having higher or lower salinity. You can solve problems by introducing or removing certain metals (even heavy metals). If you want NSW from the gulf of mexico you can grow redfish and algae. If you want NSW from the red sea, it's going to be different.

Maybe I under sold a little. Although like I said, i'm still researching it myself so I'm not trying to sell anything. Looking at the bolded statement above, the problem is that even with dosing something like two-part, that's not enough. Creatures in the tank start using up It's only replacing the major elements that we can test for. There's all kinds of trace elements that get depleted and water changes may or may not be enough, especially when like you said we are just guessing. Triton has said they don't know what many of those trace elements actually do, but they now give us a way to test for and replenish those elements. Now if you were able to do a 100% water change it may not be a problem. And Yes, the ocean's own parameters can change but there is a median set of numbers considered to be NSW and other than playing with Alk, most of us look to be around those numbers. The overall Triton "Method" isn't about solving problems, it's about creating the optimal environment for our sea creatures and preventing problems from arising. And if something does pop up, then you have the test results to help you figure it out. At least this is the conclusion I've come to so far.

I'll put it another way, from my own perspective.
I run a CaRx and love it. A very easy way to keep Alk and Calc stable. The problem is that I know there are tons of other trace elements that are being depleted. They have to be. Because I'm not adding them and I know I don't do enough water changes, even with my daily AWC. So my hope is that Triton will add those elements back in and I'll have the tests to back it up. Especially all those things we can't test for.

 

[ksfulk]

Triton represents a possible path to a future of reefkeeping that changes literally EVERYTHING. Also "IT AIN'T".
It is NOT (as it claims) a reef keeping "method" or "system".
The Triton "method" is actually nothing but the Berlin method with measured dosing.
It is sad that they are selling it this way. Because behind the measure is the answer.
If Triton or other similar companies can start collecting and sharing data about successful husbandry, it will be ground shifting in the hobby/profession.
Nearly everyone with success has some kind of refugium, maybe with or without a protein skimmer, and some kind of goal
Now, what does Miracle Mud do to your water over a 2 year period?
What does a Deep Sand Bed do over a two year period?
Is your Protein Skimmer helping or hurting, or how many hours a day should you run it?
Does some amount of Phosphate help some corals and kill others? Which ones? What amount is optimum for your tank?
What does too much Boron do to your water quality? How about too little? Lets face it, you DO NOT KNOW if your corals like more or less or NO Boron, or Plutonium for that matter.
But once the data comes in from the collective community, we will know. IF (a big if) it is collected and used somehow. Which is up to us.

Triton does not represent a reef keeping "method", it represents a data collecting opportunity. It's up to us to figure out how to use it.

I think you might be selling the "method" short in this "conversation". All systems fall into a dosing category. If you use Kalk, you are dosing, if you use ANY two part system you are dosing, if you use a calcium reactor, you are dosing. Its not new, its not exciting. The method comes from giving users a set of guidelines that can easily be followed, along with parameters and setups that can easily be duplicated. Then backing the entire method with chemical analysis that provides more accurate testing than most hobbyists are able to provide on their own. Combine those items, and you have a method. Is that the same as components of other methods/systems - sure. Does it make something entirely new - no. But, if you ask someone if they are using the "Triton Method" they have an understanding of what you are talking about and what the system entails. It creates common ground for people to understand and work from.

For what its worth, if you are pushing a rant as a conversation, and would like to be productive, instead of argumentative, try using a less agressive tone with your words. Its off putting to read through a post with veiled profanity and attacking verbage. It would be great if we had a mass data collective of what corals need what, and how we can better provide for their needs - but that message gets lost in your delivery. Just my two cents.

I use Triton. I like that it gives me set points (Keep alkalinity at 8dKH and dose X amount). Thats the selling point for me and likely for others. I dont have to guess whether an alkalinity of 7.3 or 9.1 or 12.6 is good for my corals, or what the concentration of carbonate at that level does to my other parameters and water chemistry. Its advantageous to have direction, particularily if you are new. I'm not new to the hobby, but the less variables the better. The ICP test is great too. I dont have to guess what is wrong in my tank anymore. I can see, relatively quickly, if there is an issue with elevated metals or perhaps something wrong with my testing kits before the tank ends up being nuked. Or I can rule out those issues and focus on what else might be wrong. Its a tool, and a powerful one that we havent had access to before. That said, I like the "method" and I would recommend it to other people.

 

[Ross Petersen]

Triton represents a possible path to a future of reefkeeping that changes literally EVERYTHING. Also "IT AIN'T".
It is NOT (as it claims) a reef keeping "method" or "system".
The Triton "method" is actually nothing but the Berlin method with measured dosing.
It is sad that they are selling it this way. Because behind the measure is the answer.
If Triton or other similar companies can start collecting and sharing data about successful husbandry, it will be ground shifting in the hobby/profession.
Nearly everyone with success has some kind of refugium, maybe with or without a protein skimmer, and some kind of goal
Now, what does Miracle Mud do to your water over a 2 year period?
What does a Deep Sand Bed do over a two year period?
Is your Protein Skimmer helping or hurting, or how many hours a day should you run it?
Does some amount of Phosphate help some corals and kill others? Which ones? What amount is optimum for your tank?
What does too much Boron do to your water quality? How about too little? Lets face it, you DO NOT KNOW if your corals like more or less or NO Boron, or Plutonium for that matter.
But once the data comes in from the collective community, we will know. IF (a big if) it is collected and used somehow. Which is up to us.

Triton does not represent a reef keeping "method", it represents a data collecting opportunity. It's up to us to figure out how to use it.

I like your last point - it represents a data collection opportunity. A hypothesis more so than established fact. Lots of overlap between approaches for sure.