Tropic Marin ICP

[mmorrison55]

Dosing question for you guys since tropic Marin doesn’t spell it out for me…

ug/L (micrograms per liter) is equivalent to ppb more or less right?


So for the below icp result for my copper is saying I am at .62 ppb and I should be around 4.0 ppb to be in the green

If the Block Zinc that also provides copper @ 2 ml per 26 gallon increases copper .64 ppb:

Add 2 ml per 100 L (26 US gal) of aquarium water daily to increase concentrations by approximately:

• Zinc: +1 µg/L
• Copper: +0.64 µg/L
• Chromium: +0.4 µg/L
• Gallium: +0.001 µg/L

I would more or less need to dose 6x the 2ml per 26 gallons to get m6 tank to ~4 ppb.

6 x 64 =3.84 + .62 (current Cu level) = 4.46

Is my logic correct?

Of coarse since my tank is not 26 gallons, I would have to adjust accordingly, but just wanting to make sure im correct based on the results they are providing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I personally would not dose copper at that level. A target of 4 ppb seems unnecessarily high to me.

The obvious flaw with these mixtures is that you may be dosing more than you want of some things. Zinc is already high (IMO) and adding another 6 ppb seems undesirable to me.

Don't take ICP company recommendations are universally agreed upon. They are not. They are one person or company's opinion.

If you look at Oceamo recommendations, they are much lower:

Zinc 1-3 ppb
Copper 0.2-2 ppb

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, natural average seawater levels of both copper and zinc are below 1 ppb.

 

[mmorrison55]

Another interesting and maybe a flaw of this Block system. My zinc currently reads 3.9 ppb and says to do nothing.

But the Cu it’s telling me I need comes from the zinc block.

Im thinking this block system where different trace elements are supposed to be in relation to others for dosing would only really work if you get all of the elements in that block within the range.

So you may need to dose individual elements 1st to get the elements in that block to their desired range then maintain with the block?

If that is the case, then not ideal. I was buying the block to save me from having to buy 30-40 individual trace elements

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Another interesting and maybe a flaw of this Block system. My zinc currently reads 3.9 ppb and says to do nothing.

But the Cu it’s telling me I need comes from the zinc block.

Im thinking this block system where different trace elements are supposed to be in relation to others for dosing would only really work if you get all of the elements in that block within the range.

So you may need to dose individual elements 1st to get the elements in that block to their desired range then maintain with the block?

If that is the case, then not ideal. I was buying the block to save me from having to buy 30-40 individual trace elements

Yes, that's a flaw.

There is little evidence that exact trace elements are needed, so don't agonize over that.

In general, one wants enough to provide corals all they need and not so much that it becomes toxic.
With some elements, that range may be smaller (say, copper) and some it may be very wide (say, iron).

 

[docscorals]

Another interesting and maybe a flaw of this Block system. My zinc currently reads 3.9 ppb and says to do nothing.

But the Cu it’s telling me I need comes from the zinc block.

Im thinking this block system where different trace elements are supposed to be in relation to others for dosing would only really work if you get all of the elements in that block within the range.

So you may need to dose individual elements 1st to get the elements in that block to their desired range then maintain with the block?

If that is the case, then not ideal. I was buying the block to save me from having to buy 30-40 individual trace elements

I was struggling with that same issue after my first ICP, which led to this whole chain of conversation. If I dose what I need for one element, it will likely cause others to be too high, or some not enough to get it within range.

 

[docscorals]

So I think my test of Topic Marin ICP is over. I submitted a second tests, as well as a first test for my other 5 tanks, to see how my corrections did from the first results.

The first 3 arrived to their LA collection address on January 5, I got confirmation they received them at the lab in Germany on January 9, and I had my results on January 12.

The other 3 arrived at the LA address on January 6 and I still have not received confirmation the made it to Germany. I sent an email asking to check and got a simple, “We have not received them at the lab yet”. I followed up asking how often they are shipped from LA to Germany and have not received a response.

Recommendations on a testing service that has a lab in the US?

 

[rtparty]

There are no good labs in the US. 2-3 week turn times are completely normal with all of them

 

[areefer01]

There are no good labs in the US. 2-3 week turn times are completely normal with all of them

Triton is in the US. As far as "no good labs" in the US welcome to the very opinionated hobby.

 

[mmorrison55]

https://www.reef-labs.com/
I’ve never used them, but reef labs is based in Tampa and claims a 6 day turn around

 

[Freenow54]

Glad to hear it!

QUESTION if it takes that long what good is it ? seriously want input . Or is this just for the people who don't do Water changes ?

 

[rtparty]

Triton is in the US. As far as "no good labs" in the US welcome to the very opinionated hobby.

Because of my salt testing, I’m sent ICP results all the time from people asking me about them. I see them from every company and have even been sent results from people sending samples taken at the same time to multiple companies and then comparing them against each other

Triton has been one of the worst available for the last little while with major inconsistencies.

If someone wants to go down the ICP rabbit hole, I can save them a lot of time and money by being honest from what I’m seeing. Oceamo is the only one I would trust at this point but I have no intentions of sending off another ICP on my own tank unless it’s a comparison type experiment

 

[areefer01]

Because of my salt testing, I’m sent ICP results all the time from people asking me about them. I see them from every company and have even been sent results from people sending samples taken at the same time to multiple companies and then comparing them against each other

Triton has been one of the worst available for the last little while with major inconsistencies.

If someone wants to go down the ICP rabbit hole, I can save them a lot of time and money by being honest from what I’m seeing. Oceamo is the only one I would trust at this point but I have no intentions of sending off another ICP on my own tank unless it’s a comparison type experiment

I am aware. I'm also aware of others who have done comparative tests. It does not take away that they are located in the US even though you may not like them. We are not talking about icp analysis dot com here.

But hey - we like what we like...

 

[docscorals]

Glad to hear it!

QUESTION if it takes that long what good is it ? seriously want input . Or is this just for the people who don't do Water changes ?

That’s why I am looking for someone in the US to hopefully get better turnarounds, but of course I also want reliability. Assuming I get results Monday on three that I sent out, it will be almost three weeks from the time I sent them in. The same thing happened with my first test.

As for water changes, I think it depends on the method you use. Some methods, like Triton, are designed for ULM tanks and so are designed around not doing water changes.

IMO, as tanks grow out and become more established, they will get to the point where even water changes can’t get up with the depletion of certain minerals. That’s where I believe ICPs come in.

 

[areefer01]

IMO, as tanks grow out and become more established, they will get to the point where even water changes can’t get up with the depletion of certain minerals. That’s where I believe ICPs come in.

Years ago we used Kalkwasser and it is still relevant today. In my opinion. Joe Yaiullo and the 20,000-gallon reef at the Long Island Aquarium which he is in charge of uses Kalkwasser to this very day.

I say this as a user of All For Reef but it is for no other reason that for simplicity. This will probably change as I move everything to a 400 gallon system and use both or back to Kalkwasser only.

 

[docscorals]

IMO, as tanks grow out and become more established, they will get to the point where even water changes can’t get up with the depletion of certain minerals. That’s where I believe ICPs come in.

Years ago we used Kalkwasser and it is still relevant today. In my opinion. Joe Yaiullo and the 20,000-gallon reef at the Long Island Aquarium which he is in charge of uses Kalkwasser to this very day.

I say this as a user of All For Reef but it is for no other reason that for simplicity. This will probably change as I move everything to a 400 gallon system and use both or back to Kalkwasser only.

Kalk and All for Reef are definite options. I think with Kalk, some still recommend dosing trace minerals though. I think it all depends on your approach, and in my case how analytic you are LOL. I forget where I heard this, but everyone reefs their own way!

I think the best recommendation is to figure out a method that works for you, and that you can live with, to keep it stable.

 

[Freenow54]

Years ago we used Kalkwasser and it is still relevant today. In my opinion. Joe Yaiullo and the 20,000-gallon reef at the Long Island Aquarium which he is in charge of uses Kalkwasser to this very day.

I say this as a user of All For Reef but it is for no other reason that for simplicity. This will probably change as I move everything to a 400 gallon system and use both or back to Kalkwasser only.

That is why I Questioned it . By the time I got the results back I have already done three water changes .

 

[Freenow54]

Kalk and All for Reef are definite options. I think with Kalk, some still recommend dosing trace minerals though. I think it all depends on your approach, and in my case how analytic you are LOL. I forget where I heard this, but everyone reefs their own way!

I think the best recommendation is to figure out a method that works for you, and that you can live with, to keep it stable.

I agree . I made a huge error weeks back. I went against my golden rule of doing more than one thing at a time and two of my Coral went into melt down. I posted before and after pictures on Randy Holmes Farley thread . I quit dosing which was just K- and A Plus because my mag calcium and alk were exremly high and water changes di NOT change anything . Second I used Seachem photo plankton. My one Coral closed up for most of the day , and my Figi tree was completly limp. I waited for a couple of weeks and very little change . Bear in mind the Figi tree always went limp then recovered like a molting Lobster . So anyway I asked Randy because he is still trying to figure out his anemone which I thinks likes to torment Him that it was the light. He disagreed. I moved my light which is two 65 watt AI out over the tank more to give the Coral more direct light. They are now back to really good. I started dosing the above again but now add the Zoo Plankton to the sump like they recommend for the trace minerals and all is well. So Long Story but I think I figured out my stupid error. One day I thought I would add 2 capfuls of the Zoo plankton " just food right ? " and dump it straight on the Coral

 

[Freenow54]

I agree . I made a huge error weeks back. I went against my golden rule of doing more than one thing at a time and two of my Coral went into melt down. I posted before and after pictures on Randy Holmes Farley thread . I quit dosing which was just K- and A Plus because my mag calcium and alk were exremly high and water changes di NOT change anything . Second I used Seachem photo plankton. My one Coral closed up for most of the day , and my Figi tree was completly limp. I waited for a couple of weeks and very little change . Bear in mind the Figi tree always went limp then recovered like a molting Lobster . So anyway I asked Randy because he is still trying to figure out his anemone which I thinks likes to torment Him that it was the light. He disagreed. I moved my light which is two 65 watt AI out over the tank more to give the Coral more direct light. They are now back to really good. I started dosing the above again but now add the Zoo Plankton to the sump like they recommend for the trace minerals and all is well. So Long Story but I think I figured out my stupid error. One day I thought I would add 2 capfuls of the Zoo plankton " just food right ? " and dump it straight on the Coral

Yes its all reading on the site and other places and treat it all like a smorgasbord then try what you like. Sometimes I am disappointed because I don't get replies on my postings. But luckily I have found a few patient , and knowledgeable people here that put up with my ignorant questions. My son once asked me if I minded that he asked a lot of questions . My reply was How else are you going to learn. My problem is that I get an answer and because I want to fully understand or expand on the subject I word things as if I am Arguing instead of not getting it , or have accepted the answer and now want to move on down the same path

 

[Freenow54]

I bet Joe doesn't do Water changes lol