Tropic Marin Plus-NP lowering my nitrates

[hogger555]

I started dosing Plus-NP 3 days ago, before dosing my phosphate was undetectable and nitrate was 5 ppm. Now phosphate still undetectable and nitrate is as well. I get why phosphate is still 0 because it's probably all going into my rock and sand, but why have my nitrates dropped? I haven't changed anything else since I started dosing, no water changes either, and no refugium or algae reactor. I do run my protein skimmer 24/7. Only have 4 clownfish and a handful of SPS and LPS frags I just added so no big nutrient intake. I'm using Salifert tests. Any info is appreciated!

 

[Flippers4pups]

Bump

 

[hogger555]

I contacted Tropic Marin and here is their response:

I can assure you that you have done nothing wrong. What you are seeing is normal with Plus-NP. Most of the nitrogen in Plus-NP is not in the nitrate form but in ammonium and organic form. Phosphate is also added in a form that cannot be measured with normal test kits readily but is bioavailable to the corals and other marine organisms. The nutrients are dosed in an organic matrix that supports the conversion of some of the nutrients to bacterial biomass which is available to the corals as well. The background of this unconventional approach is, that nitrate is not the best form of nitrogen for corals and may even have adverse effects, and phosphate in the form of orthophosphate readily adsorbs to calcareous materials and is not available to corals any more. We avoid these problems by our unconventional approach, but with the drawback that the nutrients cannot be found by testing readily.

We recommend to watch the corals in order to assess the effect of the nutrient supply. After some days the phosphate will show up in testing and we have adjusted our recommendations to the phosphate supply only.

Kind regards

Hans-Werner Balling

 

[tdyrkacz]

Interesting. On their directions for Plus NP they state to stop dosing once desired Nitrate and Phosphate level has been achieved... but if you can't test for it then how will you know?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

You will know because any unused excess will eventually get converted to their inorganic forms and show up on test kits.

Best case scenario would be that your corals have a nice growth spurt and you never see your nitrate or phosphate readings move. That would indicate your addition is getting fully utilized and is not accumulating.

 

[Reef_Curiosity]

Interesting. On their directions for Plus NP they state to stop dosing once desired Nitrate and Phosphate level has been achieved... but if you can't test for it then how will you know?

Hi,

The dosing of Plus-NP is not the only way phosphate and nitrogen enter the aquarium. There are also the foods you feed the fish.
So, if your regular feeding is not enough to cover the uptake of N and P by the corals etc, you can add more with Plus-NP, which is preffered by the corals. This means that regular waste products, NO3 and PO4, have a chance of increasing to a point where the aquarium is not phosphate limited, and you can focus on maintenance dosing instead with a different product.

 

[tdyrkacz]

Thanks guys. That makes sense.

 

[Naturalreef]

I contacted Tropic Marin and here is their response:

I can assure you that you have done nothing wrong. What you are seeing is normal with Plus-NP. Most of the nitrogen in Plus-NP is not in the nitrate form but in ammonium and organic form. Phosphate is also added in a form that cannot be measured with normal test kits readily but is bioavailable to the corals and other marine organisms. The nutrients are dosed in an organic matrix that supports the conversion of some of the nutrients to bacterial biomass which is available to the corals as well. The background of this unconventional approach is, that nitrate is not the best form of nitrogen for corals and may even have adverse effects, and phosphate in the form of orthophosphate readily adsorbs to calcareous materials and is not available to corals any more. We avoid these problems by our unconventional approach, but with the drawback that the nutrients cannot be found by testing readily.

We recommend to watch the corals in order to assess the effect of the nutrient supply. After some days the phosphate will show up in testing and we have adjusted our recommendations to the phosphate supply only.

Kind regards

Hans-Werner Balling

Just refreshing this post in case anyone is using plus-np. What Hans posted is exactly what I experienced using the product. I continue using it to this day with a great experience for anyone suffering from low nutrients.

 

[exnisstech]

Plus NP and elimi NP were both kind of a mystery when I tried them. I didn't really see an effect from either at least nothing that showed in on my tests.

 

[Naturalreef]

Plus NP and elimi NP were both kind of a mystery when I tried them. I didn't really see an effect from either at least nothing that showed in on my tests.

It will take a while to show up on tests as Hans mentioned. Once coral are saturated and their uptake slows, it will start showing up on tests. It took a few weeks before it was measurable.

The nice thing is, I stopped testing po4 daily and changed to weekly. Coral response was fantastic. 1 bottle lasts almost a year. I always start with dry rock which just eats up the po4.

But the key takeaway, it won’t show up on test kits until you are out of the danger zone. I just observe my sps polyp extension which tells me when po4 is low. when it’s on a doser, I sleep well at night knowing it’s supplying nutrients in the right ratio that is quick uptake for my sps and macroalgae.

It’s one of the few products that has saved my sps from low nutrients.

 

[exnisstech]

It will take a while to show up on tests as Hans mentioned. Once coral are saturated and their uptake slows, it will start showing up on tests. It took a few weeks before it was measurable.

The nice thing is, I stopped testing po4 daily and changed to weekly. Coral response was fantastic. 1 bottle lasts almost a year. I always start with dry rock which just eats up the po4.

But the key takeaway, it won’t show up on test kits until you are out of the danger zone. I just observe my sps polyp extension which tells me when po4 is low. when it’s on a doser, I sleep well at night knowing it’s supplying nutrients in the right ratio that is quick uptake for my sps and macroalgae.

It’s one of the few products that has saved my sps from low nutrients.

This is interesting as I currently have to dose dosing almost daily and PO4 a few times a week in my acro dominant tank. I haven't tried plus NP in this tank. If i can get similar results it would be perfect. I have a bottle here still so maybe I'll give it a try once I get the tank transfered and stabilized. Thanks for the info

 

[Tahoe61]

I have been dosing it constantly for over a month on my IM25. It took 2 weeks for Nitrates to register.
Increasing feedings did not work for this tank. N/P Plus is not particularly strong but I like that, because you don't need to worry about over dosing as long as you follow the directions.

 

[Naturalreef]

This is interesting as I currently have to dose dosing almost daily and PO4 a few times a week in my acro dominant tank. I haven't tried plus NP in this tank. If i can get similar results it would be perfect. I have a bottle here still so maybe I'll give it a try once I get the tank transfered and stabilized. Thanks for the info

I was using brightwell neo nitro and phosphorus for the same reason. It fed nuisance hair algae and I was constantly having to adjust it. With plus np, 2ml for my acro dominant 50 gallon on a doser once a day. Using way less product vs brightwell. Coral and macro are being fed with nutrients as well as bacteria, which will show great polyp extension.

Heavy import, heavy export. Bactobalance ran a finer line which made me worry with acros. Plus np can be adjusted easily depending on your po4 levels.

Having a refugium with dragons breath allows me to feed heavy and gives me the benefits of quorum quenching for my sps. Dragons breath is not as aggressive as chaeto. Using plus np makes sure I don’t tank the nutrients.

 

[exnisstech]

I was using brightwell neo nitro and phosphorus for the same reason. It fed nuisance hair algae and I was constantly having to adjust it. With plus np, 2ml for my acro dominant 50 gallon on a doser once a day. Using way less product vs brightwell. Coral and macro are being fed with nutrients as well as bacteria, which will show great polyp extension.

Heavy import, heavy export. Bactobalance ran a finer line which made me worry with acros. Plus np can be adjusted easily depending on your po4 levels.

Having a refugium with dragons breath allows me to feed heavy and gives me the benefits of quorum quenching for my sps. Dragons breath is not as aggressive as chaeto. Using plus np makes sure I don’t tank the nutrients.

I have a bottle of plus NP and think I'll start it in my IM20 mixed reef and see how it goes. Tank runs low N and P and also has some algae issues.

 

[Tahoe61]

I have a bottle of plus NP and think I'll start it in my IM20 mixed reef and see how it goes. Tank runs low N and P and also has some algae issues.

Directions call for one squirt/pump per 26 gal. With the rock my IM25 is roughly 20 gal. I have been using one pump daily for over a month, but phosphate barely budgies. Nitrates went from 0 to 25, I am happy that value.
Every tank is different but I expected the values to climb faster, considering the amount I use.
My corals have certainly perked up and most algae issues are not really noticeable.
I am going to start Neophos though.

 

[Naturalreef]

If your coral look good with just using plus np, be careful with neophos which will def. fuel algae growth. The plus np is quickly taken up by coral, and if they are in a deprivation, it will take a while to show up on test kits.

I’m just dosing plus np and heavy feeding, and still have low nutrients per test kits. Coral look great and have to clean the glass every few days, so I know nutrients are there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If your coral look good with just using plus np, be careful with neophos which will def. fuel algae growth.

I don't think that is always the case, unless phosphate is very low (too low) to start with. There are several reasons for thinking this:

1. Many folks have greatly elevated phosphate (1+ ppm) without algae problems.
2. Unless phosphate is currently the single limiting factor to algae growth, increasing other nutrients will have no effect.
3. Many types of algae can grow perfectly well at relatively low levels of phosphate.

 

[IceNein]

I might have to buy a bottle of this stuff. Dosing ammonia has not worked for me, it's just fueled massive algae growth without raising testable nutrient levels. Doesn't seem that expensive, so may be worth a shot just to see how it goes.

 

[exnisstech]

I might have to buy a bottle of this stuff. Dosing ammonia has not worked for me, it's just fueled massive algae growth without raising testable nutrient levels. Doesn't seem that expensive, so may be worth a shot just to see how it goes.

Very interesting and another case of every tank is different that seems to be so common in the hobby. My SPS tank has run at or near zero N and P since starting it 3 years ago. I was dosing diy nitrate and phosphate before switching to ammonium bicarb for nitrate 6 months or so ago. I'm getting much better results with the ammonium than I did dosing nitrate. I've also had no nuisance algae at all except bubble algae in places where detritus collects in holes on the rocks. I thought of switching to Plus NP on that tank but it's doing so well I decided not to make changes.