Trying to save fish from seriously neglected tank

[hmmmmm]

I will post the whole story later but this i just the practical stuff. There was an ad on our version of craigslist for a free 750L aquarium with everything included. Fish, equipment etc. But it had to go that day and everything had to go, extra tanks, sumps etc. On the photos it looked bad, you couldn't see the back of the aquarium due to the algae.. When we got there i saw immediately that all the fish were sick, about 20 of them, from ocellaris to emperors. White dots on multiple fish and most were breathing heavy or showing erratic behavior. He already took 2 big fish out that same morning.. When i started taking stuff out i found multiple fish in different states of decay.. I never planned this, didnt even want to take anything with me, but the guy had a medical issue, couldnt use his hands, so everything was going to die in a matter of days..

Anyway I took everything home and set up the QT system. Only used around 10% of the old aquarium water, and added 90% newly mixed saltwater with the same levels (38ppt/24C).
Dosed HW Odinex to the manufacturers instructions (this also contains copper). Upped the temp to 27.5 as they advise. Cant add any live rock. Already had multiple sponge filters going from the start, but i have no DT running atm so no live bacteria (cant use that with the medication anyway).

Tried feeding the first night with 5 different foods, 3 frozen, pellets and flakes. No response. Next day (monday) got up early to find 4 dead fish. Tried feeding again, only the blue tang and 1 or 2 clownfish will eat anything. Changed 30% of the water (60 liters roughly) as a precaution.

Today (Tuesday) after the third dose of Odinex hooked up the UV (30w) and added the skimmers (according to the manufacturer this can be combined. Tried feeding, the clown are eating, but thats about it. Tried two more types of frozen food from another brand but no luck. Put in the the Seneye and found that the ammonia level is still green but high, 0.048 ppm. Tried verifying with the Hanna Ammonia LR but that comes back with a reading of 3.00, so it is above the max. Which doesn't make sense, they both measure in ppm. Redid the test on the Hanna, same result. (also tested Hanna nitrite @ 47PPB) Now im unsure what to do. If the ammonia is getting to high (it already is) that will kill the fish, but if i add live rock or bacteria that will stop the effect of the medication?

Maybe do 50% water change with the medication already in? Or add live rock/substrate from the LFS and go into hypo? Im not seeing the white spots anymore, the fish that had it clearly visible are the ones that died. Anything i can do to help them start eating?

Video, you can clearly see the heavy breathing

 

[NewGoby]

for the ammonia - I'd get the tank seeded with life rock from the LFS or a friend, or maybe an existing tank of your own.

To get the fish to eat again - grind up fresh garlic, let some frozen food (or dry food) soak in it with some water (30-60mins should be plenty, can be done overnight too), garlic has antibacterial properties, make sure to take the garlic pieces out before feeding.

To combat ammonia for now, daily 50-80% water changes untill the tank is properly seeded & get something that jump starts the nitrification cycle from the fish store

Make sure to not over feed - any extra food will end up causing more ammonia until your tank is settled with plenty of bacteria for the nitrification cycle.

 

[hmmmmm]

for the ammonia - I'd get the tank seeded with life rock from the LFS or a friend, or maybe an existing tank of your own.

To get the fish to eat again - grind up fresh garlic, let some frozen food (or dry food) soak in it with some water (30-60mins should be plenty, can be done overnight too), garlic has antibacterial properties, make sure to take the garlic pieces out before feeding.

To combat ammonia for now, daily 50-80% water changes untill the tank is properly seeded & get something that jump starts the nitrification cycle from the fish store

Make sure to not over feed - any extra food will end up causing more ammonia until your tank is settled with plenty of bacteria for the nitrification cycle.

Thank you for the quick reply! Got it the car as quick as possible.

Bought some of the substrate they use in one of their coral systems and put it in a media reactor.

Added microblend and Colombo bacteria

And got some garlic guard to soak the food and vitamins to enrich. Just as I walked out I got an Amazon package from the us with metroplex and general cure. This was meant for the upcoming qt but might come in handy. Should I add either of them in advance or wait for a while to see what happens? (I will have to shut a lot of the filtration off though, which won't help with the water quality)

 

[NewGoby]

You're welcome,
I'm not sure if it's wise to dose either right now - shutting filtration off will increase ammonia levels (which are already high)
You mentioned that there are no visible spots right now - if they still aren't there, I wouldn't dose right now unless it comes back & I'd focus on getting ammonia levels on check - is it possible to put in more gravel or more live rock? I doubt that that's sufficient for the amount of fish that are in the tank.

To help with the heavy breathing you can just increase the bubble stone & maybe add a cover in the area where the stone is located, so you don't get extreme salt creep.

 

[Bo.]

Let the bacteria do it's thing and get through most of the cycle would be my suggestion. Medicines still stress the fish, and added to the elevated ammonia could send them over the edge. It sucks, but waiting for ammonia and nitrates to drop before adding anything else is best.

Another option is seeing if your lfs will take the fish, and might be their best chance of survival.

 

[hmmmmm]

Tried soaking mysis in the garlic extract for half an hour, adding a couple drops of vitamine as well. No luck.. they just ignore it completely.

I have a big tub of live rock I was cycling, but that's only been going for 8 days, after being soaked in bleech. Added special blend and Colombo every other day, with a small piece of shrimp. According to the Seneye that's Now at an ammonia level of 0.050. There is a bioblock in there as well. Should I add it now and let it cycle further in the qt?

 

[therootcause]

Just came to say you makes us proud!

 

[NewGoby]

Tried soaking mysis in the garlic extract for half an hour, adding a couple drops of vitamine as well. No luck.. they just ignore it completely.

I have a big tub of live rock I was cycling, but that's only been going for 8 days, after being soaked in bleech. Added special blend and Colombo every other day, with a small piece of shrimp. According to the Seneye that's Now at an ammonia level of 0.050. There is a bioblock in there as well. Should I add it now and let it cycle further in the qt?

That's a tough one, you mentioned soaked in bleach - so I'm tempted to say.. no don't add it if there's even a small trace of bleach left in there - I'm not sure if there are products that make bleach not harmfull.

Maybe if there is one then you could, although filtering over activated carbon would help a lot & replacing it every day or every other day.

I've personally never bleached rock before, I've heard of people bleaching -> drying -> washing with water -> drying -> washing with water -> drying again & then using it.. But i'm not sure if that works,

The substrate you got would make the cycle 10 times faster if you're sure that the bleach is gone from the rock in the tub.

 

[Dom]

@hmmmmm - Hat Tip my friend. You've taken on quite a challenge.

 

[Bo.]

Tried soaking mysis in the garlic extract for half an hour, adding a couple drops of vitamine as well. No luck.. they just ignore it completely.

I have a big tub of live rock I was cycling, but that's only been going for 8 days, after being soaked in bleech. Added special blend and Colombo every other day, with a small piece of shrimp. According to the Seneye that's Now at an ammonia level of 0.050. There is a bioblock in there as well. Should I add it now and let it cycle further in the qt?

I'd be very hesitant to add the rock that soon after bleach, since bleach is sodium hyperchlorite and doesn't evaporate it takes a lot of rinsing to remove it all.

@hmmmmm - Hat Tip my friend. You've taken on quite a challenge.

Definitely agree, we're rooting for you and those guys! Just don't change too much to fast and let them get used to each step for a day or so.

 

[TriggerFinger]

i suggest focusing on ammonia control first as the fish can be harmed by the ammonia, which won’t help you in getting them better. The bacteria should start working to help with that. Leave your rock where it is bc it will soak up your medication and I don’t think it’s cycled yet to help with ammonia control. Hats off to you for taking on such a mess, I can’t say I would have done the same. I wish you the best of luck!! Lots of knowledgeable people here to help you along!

 

[Ryan Avery]

Someone may have said this already but I would add sea chem prime. It binds ammonia to make it non toxic for 24 hours. The bound ammonia is still accessible to the bacteria to feed the cycle

 

[hmmmmm]

@hmmmmm - Hat Tip my friend. You've taken on quite a challenge.

Just came to say you makes us proud!

Thanks fellas. But i have to be honest, it started out with selfish reasons. I saw the fish and the equipment (mostly old stuff but very useful for a qt, breeding setup or frag tank) and thought i had found a great deal. Will take a lot of time and effort but worth it, and more of an adventure that ordering from the LFS. It was Sunday and also mothers-day so getting people to help so quickly was tricky, and hiring a van even trickier. But i had some great help from my brother and best friend, and a few polish fellas who came walking by and saw us struggle with the 150+ KG tank ;Happy

I was thinking get the fish out and give away the tanks, but after seeing the tank my hearth sank.. It must have been that bad for a very long time. There was no clean up crew, not one snail or anything alive in the substrate. The test sets were good till 2017, so who know how long he went without testing anything. The guy was using water straight from the tap because and i quote: 'that takes up to much space'. Here is the stuff that came out of the appartment, and thats without the multiple tanks and sumps:

He had the tank for 10 years, just kept buying fish after fish.. The tank was garbage, the equipment mostly broken or covered in god knows what. I could have walked away i guess, but i had people coming to help, the van was paid for, the fish were dying, no way i was letting that happen, guy has killed enough livestock.. Its really weird to me when people are filling their house with stuff for a hobby, and just keep repeating the same thing, even though it clearly doesnt work. He mentioned he had problemen with nitrates, so he added multiple reactors with sulfur stuf, biopellets, gfo etc. And then put some more of it in bags in the sump, because it wasnt working.. Im sure the tapwater and 400w worth of leds for freshwater didnt help with the algea and nutrient problem.. no clue..

That's a tough one, you mentioned soaked in bleach - so I'm tempted to say.. no don't add it if there's even a small trace of bleach left in there - I'm not sure if there are products that make bleach not harmfull.

Maybe if there is one then you could, although filtering over activated carbon would help a lot & replacing it every day or every other day.

I've personally never bleached rock before, I've heard of people bleaching -> drying -> washing with water -> drying -> washing with water -> drying again & then using it.. But i'm not sure if that works,

The substrate you got would make the cycle 10 times faster if you're sure that the bleach is gone from the rock in the tub.

Alright ive added the bioblock and the 2 bags of rubble rock, those are the only things that weren't soaked in bleach. I did let the other rocks dry and cleaned them with the power washer, i think bleach will evaporate rather quickly but im not taking that change untill im sure. Also added another airstone to the bottom tank and turned the airflow up x4.

 

[Dom]

Reading this thread, it has me thinking that it is important to have a contingency plan in this hobby if you should suddenly become unable to to the required work....

 

[Bryce M.]

Good luck, I hope you save them, and then do what ever, sell some, keep come. Because that's a wide variety of fish!

 

[NewGoby]

Thanks fellas. But i have to be honest, it started out with selfish reasons. I saw the fish and the equipment (mostly old stuff but very useful for a qt, breeding setup or frag tank) and thought i had found a great deal. Will take a lot of time and effort but worth it, and more of an adventure that ordering from the LFS. It was Sunday and also mothers-day so getting people to help so quickly was tricky, and hiring a van even trickier. But i had some great help from my brother and best friend, and a few polish fellas who came walking by and saw us struggle with the 150+ KG tank ;Happy

I was thinking get the fish out and give away the tanks, but after seeing the tank my hearth sank.. It must have been that bad for a very long time. There was no clean up crew, not one snail or anything alive in the substrate. The test sets were good till 2017, so who know how long he went without testing anything. The guy was using water straight from the tap because and i quote: 'that takes up to much space'. Here is the stuff that came out of the appartment, and thats without the multiple tanks and sumps:

He had the tank for 10 years, just kept buying fish after fish.. The tank was garbage, the equipment mostly broken or covered in god knows what. I could have walked away i guess, but i had people coming to help, the van was paid for, the fish were dying, no way i was letting that happen, guy has killed enough livestock.. Its really weird to me when people are filling their house with stuff for a hobby, and just keep repeating the same thing, even though it clearly doesnt work. He mentioned he had problemen with nitrates, so he added multiple reactors with sulfur stuf, biopellets, gfo etc. And then put some more of it in bags in the sump, because it wasnt working.. Im sure the tapwater and 400w worth of leds for freshwater didnt help with the algea and nutrient problem.. no clue..

Alright ive added the bioblock and the 2 bags of rubble rock, those are the only things that weren't soaked in bleach. I did let the other rocks dry and cleaned them with the power washer, i think bleach will evaporate rather quickly but im not taking that change untill im sure. Also added another airstone to the bottom tank and turned the airflow up x4.

Sounds good, if you have some - add some activated carbon just incase

 

[therootcause]

Reading this thread, it has me thinking that it is important to have a contingency plan in this hobby if you should suddenly become unable to to the required work....

I think there have been some threads about preparing for that. For example, if you are hit by a bus today...what happens to your aquarium from that point forward? Is anyone in your household prepared for that?

"Please don't let my wife sell my corals for what I told her I paid for them" comes to mind....

 

[hmmmmm]

Thanks guys, ill keep you updated!

Someone may have said this already but I would add sea chem prime. It binds ammonia to make it non toxic for 24 hours. The bound ammonia is still accessible to the bacteria to feed the cycle

My LFS is the only on in a 50km radius and doesn't keep it in stock, and i have to go to work at some point.. So i tried calling different suppliers and found one that had it, he's sending it out today but with the virus packages are rarely on time. Ill do waterchanges to keep it at bay i guess. Just put in another 40 liters before i left.

Sounds good, if you have some - add some activated carbon just in case

Done! Had some Red Sea 'reef spec' carbon laying around, whatever that means. Might put in the reactor when i get home, put it in a bag in a high flow area for the moment.


Just thinking out loud;
-If the food with garlic trick doesn't work, maybe i should try some live food? Don't know were to get it but i might ask on the dutch forums if someone has is on hand.
-I have a cheato reactor for my upcoming build, maybe i should get some cheato from another reefer and fire that up to help with nutrient?

 

[Leslie Tabor]

Reading this thread, it has me thinking that it is important to have a contingency plan in this hobby if you should suddenly become unable to to the required work....

I don't think that was the main issue here. But we will give the benefit of the doubt as the blatant disregard for the life and well being of those poor fish, would be too hard to imagine it being done for any other reason.

I am so glad you decided to help these fish. Regardless of why you went there, you didn't abandon them. Even if none of them make it, the important thing is, you are trying. Good luck and thank you again. This breaks my heart.

 

[NewGoby]

Thanks guys, ill keep you updated!



My LFS is the only on in a 50km radius and doesn't keep it in stock, and i have to go to work at some point.. So i tried calling different suppliers and found one that had it, he's sending it out today but with the virus packages are rarely on time. Ill do waterchanges to keep it at bay i guess. Just put in another 40 liters before i left.



Done! Had some Red Sea 'reef spec' carbon laying around, whatever that means. Might put in the reactor when i get home, put it in a bag in a high flow area for the moment.


Just thinking out loud;
-If the food with garlic trick doesn't work, maybe i should try some live food? Don't know were to get it but i might ask on the dutch forums if someone has is on hand.
-I have a cheato reactor for my upcoming build, maybe i should get some cheato from another reefer and fire that up to help with nutrient?

Wait you're Dutch, awesome - I'am Dutch too.
You could definetly fire up your chaeto reactor, but I doubt it'd help with the ammonia levels.
If you can get your hands on some pods or something similair - that could definetly help too.