Trying to save fish from seriously neglected tank

[gabrieltackitt]

So glad you got connected with the man @Humblefish himself. I’d venture to say he’s the best around as far as treatment and disease around.

Keep us updated, I’d definitely like to see how this shakes out.

 

[hmmmmm]

Took longer then i thought, luckily im on standby for work and a call came in, so atleast i got paid while waiting ;Headphone

 

[MelReefer]

You’re a hero bro

 

[hmmmmm]

Alrighty back at it. Went to several shops to get everything I needed like H2O2 and the Hanna reagent. Turns out that Cupramine is also illegal here, as many medications. Luckily found 1 shop that sells it anyway. I can only get H2O2 in small quantities so had to go to several locations of the pharmacy to get enough. I explained why I needed it and told them I will just drive around to different stores but they had to make it difficult.

The collection is slowly growing, sucks I have to spend all this money but I need it at some point anyway so might as well do it now.

Found another casualty when I got back.. one of the clownfish didn't make it through the day..

Set up a temporary tank for the peroxide bath. Yes I know I should use glass but didn't have a tank available that was guaranteed clean, checked the composition of the plastic and looked online, PTFE will handle h202 even at 30% so really depends on the type.

38 liters of water @ 1017 and 22C. So ended up using almost 2 bottles, 190ml to be exact.

As soon as I dropped some fish in they were stressing like crazy. I had to get all of them at once so I could clean the tanks of the previously used medication. Ended up putting some tubes in there as a hiding place. Not preferred but I had to act fast.

Left them in for 30 min and meanwhile changed out the water in the qt and changed some things around. Took the big skimmer out as it wasn't working well due to low water level, but in a second smaller tunze comline. Extra airstone so 2 on each tank now, and used some sponge filter pumps for flow instead of the tunze wavemakers, they were going to fast for my liking.

After putting them back in I see no effect, the obvious white spot had gone last night due to the HW copper probably, still none of them are eating and still breathing heavily.


Removed the chemical filtration and dosed the first round of Cupramine, now at 0.4 according to the Hanna. Going to up it tomorrow to 0.55\0.6 to leave a little headroom and keep it there for 2 weeks. Also dosing the saltwater supply tank so I can change it out without changing that value.

Can't use the Seachem Prime it said on the cupramine bottle, so that sucks, guess I'll get more salt for water changes..

 

[Sirspeedy77]

Reading this thread, it has me thinking that it is important to have a contingency plan in this hobby if you should suddenly become unable to to the required work....

I’d like to think that’s what we’re all here for.. I use my local Facebook group as a lifeline. Help , equipment, advice, livestock - everything. There is sound advice in your suggestion, I may inquire within my locals and continue to foster those relationships - should anything ever leave me Incapable.

 

[MelReefer]

I’m sure I speak for everyone but you make me very Happy to see that someone is trying to help when they could have just walked away

 

[Hugh Mann]

I apologize that I do not have anything constructive to add, but I do have something to say.

You good sir, are an absolute beast. I'm willing to bet you've spent more money saving these fish than it would take to buy them. Not many would do so, and more would have given up long ago. You deserve a medal.

Edit: Site censored the original word I attempted to use to describe your awesomeness.

 

[cmoore806]

I will post the whole story later but this i just the practical stuff. There was an ad on our version of craigslist for a free 750L aquarium with everything included. Fish, equipment etc. But it had to go that day and everything had to go, extra tanks, sumps etc. On the photos it looked bad, you couldn't see the back of the aquarium due to the algae.. When we got there i saw immediately that all the fish were sick, about 20 of them, from ocellaris to emperors. White dots on multiple fish and most were breathing heavy or showing erratic behavior. He already took 2 big fish out that same morning.. When i started taking stuff out i found multiple fish in different states of decay.. I never planned this, didnt even want to take anything with me, but the guy had a medical issue, couldnt use his hands, so everything was going to die in a matter of days..

Anyway I took everything home and set up the QT system. Only used around 10% of the old aquarium water, and added 90% newly mixed saltwater with the same levels (38ppt/24C).
Dosed HW Odinex to the manufacturers instructions (this also contains copper). Upped the temp to 27.5 as they advise. Cant add any live rock. Already had multiple sponge filters going from the start, but i have no DT running atm so no live bacteria (cant use that with the medication anyway).

Tried feeding the first night with 5 different foods, 3 frozen, pellets and flakes. No response. Next day (monday) got up early to find 4 dead fish. Tried feeding again, only the blue tang and 1 or 2 clownfish will eat anything. Changed 30% of the water (60 liters roughly) as a precaution.

Today (Tuesday) after the third dose of Odinex hooked up the UV (30w) and added the skimmers (according to the manufacturer this can be combined. Tried feeding, the clown are eating, but thats about it. Tried two more types of frozen food from another brand but no luck. Put in the the Seneye and found that the ammonia level is still green but high, 0.048 ppm. Tried verifying with the Hanna Ammonia LR but that comes back with a reading of 3.00, so it is above the max. Which doesn't make sense, they both measure in ppm. Redid the test on the Hanna, same result. (also tested Hanna nitrite @ 47PPB) Now im unsure what to do. If the ammonia is getting to high (it already is) that will kill the fish, but if i add live rock or bacteria that will stop the effect of the medication?

Maybe do 50% water change with the medication already in? Or add live rock/substrate from the LFS and go into hypo? Im not seeing the white spots anymore, the fish that had it clearly visible are the ones that died. Anything i can do to help them start eating?

Video, you can clearly see the heavy breathing

Maybe it was mentioned already but Hanna's ammonia checker isn't for marine/saltwater.

 

[hmmmmm]

You’re a hero bro

I’m sure I speak for everyone but you make me very Happy to see that someone is trying to help when they could have just walked away

I apologize that I do not have anything constructive to add, but I do have something to say.

You good sir, are an absolute beast. I'm willing to bet you've spent more money saving these fish than it would take to buy them. Not many would do so, and more would have given up long ago. You deserve a medal.

Edit: Site censored the original word I attempted to use to describe your awesomeness.

Thanks fallas!

Not sure what the outcome will be but i see it as a learning experience. I know now i will never run any aquarium again without a strict quarantine process, its just not worth it. I've had ich once on one fish and treated it in the DT, got lucky and everything got back to normal.

But this got me thinking what would have happened if these were the fish i would have handpicked and kept for years. If you don't have the experience and the supplies to deal with it, i think it would be the end of the hobby for most.. Especially with brooke and velvet being able to murder and kill in such a short period. So im looking at it like this; if i try everything and they don't make it they were already dead when i picked them up, but the experience might save others in the future.

Still at work so only have an hour or so tonight, hopefully a water change and copper test is al that is required. I'll get you guys updated on the weekend, if everything is lost before then ill be in prison for a bit because ive burned an old guys apartment down

 

[laurichj]

I know now i will never run any aquarium again without a strict quarantine process, its just not worth it.

Most people learn this when it's their fish dying. You're ahead of the game, sort of. I was lucky and only had flukes in the DT. Got it via an invert, which are all 72 days QT in a fishless tank now.

At this point I think everyone's first tank needs to be a QT.

I've had ich once on one fish and treated it in the DT, got lucky and everything got back to normal.

I'm going to be very clear because it's important: No you didn't. You cannot treat ich in a non FOWLR DT: all treatments will kill inverts. You can manage it, and it can appear to go away; even for years. A stressful event will bring it back, and the fish have been dealing with it in their gills the entire time.

Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Ich eradication vs. Ich management The purpose of this article is to discuss the pros & cons of ich eradication and ich management, and present the best methods for implementing each. Ich eradication - Simply put, this method means doing everything possible to keep ich out of your tank. That...

humble.fish

Have I read this thread right and you no longer have this DT or any fish from it, right? If you do, you need to assume it's still there and QT everything. Total PITA, but the new fish are going to be very stressed and prone to infection which will put all the fish in danger.

But this got me thinking what would have happened if these were the fish i would have handpicked and kept for years. If you don't have the experience and the supplies to deal with it, i think it would be the end of the hobby for most.. Especially with brooke and velvet being able to murder and kill in such a short period.

Its very common. I got a stocked 20G tank free due to it last week. Two clowns doing tank transfer and a lot of inverts going fallow for 72 days. Owner didn't even say anything about ich.

So im looking at it like this; if i try everything and they don't make it they were already dead when i picked them up, but the experience might save others in the future.

Great way to look at it.

 

[AC1211]

How many fish have survived so far from the initial total?

 

[hmmmmm]

Most of them are still alive, lost one. But next issue.. I've been running the tank now for a few days after the peroxide dip. Temp is at 21C, salt at 10.17, copper between 0.50-58.

No I have multiple fish that are breathing but laying on their sides. Yesterday is was just the one at the end of this video:



Now it's 3 of them (blue tang and blue angel as well. They don't seem to panicked but are not moving at all. I've seen some topics were flukes were involved with this behaviour, and fresh water dips identified them, but I don't want to stress them any further without more information.

Already did another 50% water change and checked the copper level.

Got one of these to take out the food immediately after trying to feed to minimize buildup.

Any thoughts? Anything else I can do or try? Or just let them be?

 

[laurichj]

That's a very typical sign of many illnesses; velvet and brook included. They're exhausted and struggling to breathe.

Copper won't help immediately, it only kills the free swimming stages not the stages on the fish or encysted. The attached parasites will continue to feed, grow and interrupt breathing.

Copper is also reportedly not very effective for brook. Formalin is the recommended treatment.

That said, a FW dip will temporarily relieve brook and fluke symptoms and will generally benefit an affected fish. If you suspect flukes, prazi is safe to use with copper and you'll see improvements in 24 hours. http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html

 

[hmmmmm]

Just a little update. The FW dip seems to have given the necessary time to let the medications do their job, after a week or so they slowly started to eat. Keeping the water quality consistent with around 12 fish in 200L was more difficult then i imagined, ended up having to change 25% every other day. Most seemed very skittish after the meds and only eating specific types of food, but now they are all eating flakes and frozen. In the end i managed to save 6 clowns, the foxface, the bannerfish, and 4 others.

So thanks to everyone for the advice, without everyone's efforts they would have been wasted for sure! Now im not only happy with the result but also with the knowledge gained during this whole endeavor, even though it was forced a bit by circumstance A proper QT for new fish can only be easier from this point forward! (right? )