Tulip-polyp syndrome and neoplasia

[Ocelaris]

It's hard to to say since so much time has passed, but whatever was upsetting the tank might still be there, and everyone's tank has so many differences. All I can share is my experience that it was something related to my carbon dosing and it went away, with seemingly nothing but going back to basics and good husbandry.

This hobby is still mostly a mystery, and the best advice is to play it close to what long term refers you admire do. I can't find the YouTube series, but someone did some interviews with a bunch of old timers "masters" or something, and that was really helpful. Coral euphoria is another great series. Long story short, they all used various methods, but stuck to the fundamentals. I'm not saying you have not, but by comparing my methods against theirs, I could see what was extraneous and what mattered.

Each new refresh gets you closer to long term stability. Example, I almost won't put local hobbyist frags in my tank (except a few lfs), too many bugs floating around. Also I got aptasia from chaeto at a store. I built my rock work too high. I lost 6 fairy wrasses a month ago due to some unknown disease (maybe velvet) But I'm still 10x better 3 years in than I was with the last one. It's a crushing experience, but when it works one day you'll look up and wonder in amazement how well things are doing, and have been for months on end.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Great topic!
I believe the hyperplasia is caused by one or both of the following. Stress from alk and calcium kept in unbalanced proportions or carbon sources used wrong or used when not needed are what I have found in common with tanks keeping corals with hyperplasia issues. These corals will have skeletal defects in the areas affected unlike the issues below.

But what is in this thread is different from hyperplasia and I only have seen these two types of issues (polyp and flesh distortions) come up in the past 10 years or so. I believe it’s likely a bacterial issue within the coral that causes both of these issues. I often see them both in the same tanks or on the same corals. It has become much more prevalent recently. A number of very high end coral sellers have (or had) this issue in their tanks and since it has spread to hobbiest tanks. I used to almost never see this growth and it’s not coming in from wild corals.
Just the fact that you can take these corals and move them into a different tank that’s using the same water source and methods of husbandry as the tank it was in before, and the coral rebounds and heals is just odd. It is what everyone I have talked to has found is the solution though. Although shipping these fragments that are affected puts them through stress and I think it’s possible the coral doesn’t get the chance to heal itself in the new tank and the issue remains and possibly spreads to certain corals in the new tank as well. It’s certainly seeming to be able to spread but not very easily in most cases.
I think people who have multiple tanks that move the affected corals over to give the coral this slight change in flow and light and basic stuff like that, which gives the coral the chance to heal and maybe change the bacteria populations inside of it at the same time. If the corals were getting this from a toxin in the water then any coral with the issue that is shipped from one place to another should recover in the new tank but this often doesn’t happen and seems to be why more people are seeing the issue in the recent past years. I am no biologist though, just my thoughts

 

[TylerR]

I do think I’ll be restarting my tank. I also have a tiny 7 gallon I’ll sterilize and start up. I’ll try to restart with my same equipment and see if the problem comes up again.

Btw, what’s the best way to sterilize rock? I was thinking I’ll dry it out after rinsing it with RO water. Then soak in 6% food grade hydrogen peroxide.

 

[IconCorals]

I do think I’ll be restarting my tank. I also have a tiny 7 gallon I’ll sterilize and start up. I’ll try to restart with my same equipment and see if the problem comes up again.

Btw, what’s the best way to sterilize rock? I was thinking I’ll dry it out after rinsing it with RO water. Then soak in 6% food grade hydrogen peroxide.

How did it go?

I have the exact same problem as you, everything has been stable for two years in two different tanks and i still have the issue, considering a reset myself

did this fix your problem?

Thanks

J

 

[Mad Doc]

Hello, I’m experiencing the exact same thing and I’m wandering did you reset? If so how did that go? Or maybe you decided to stick with it?

 

[TylerR]

Hello, I’m experiencing the exact same thing and I’m wandering did you reset? If so how did that go? Or maybe you decided to stick with it?

I did a complete restart. Got rid of all livestock, soaked sand and rock in hydrogen peroxide. Dried everything out. The tank is running but has no corals in it yet. When I had the hyperplasia issue in my old tank I noticed it took about 2-4 months before the symptoms developed on new frags so now all my new frags stay in a new little 10g bare bottom quarantine tank for 4 months. I also remember that Oregon Torts showed the most extreme symptoms so I bought a little frag that I've been watching closely. So far all my new frags are showing no signs of any issues. The quarantine will be over after the new year then it'll be another cycle of new ones before my 40G gets any coral (these currently in quarantine are going into a new 10g in my bedroom).

It's a shame this problem is so rare and unknown. Personally, I think it's from something in the environment and likely from a specific bacteria.

 

[Ocelaris]

I stuck with it and it went away. My theory is still some excess nutrients infecting corals. But I have no definitive evidence, just that mine cleared up eventually.

 

[sculpin01]

I'm curious as to whether sending an Aquabiomics test where the affected corals are directly swabbed would yield anything. If this is a bacterial process, there may be amplification of causative species in the test results. Once you have that information, directed antibiotic therapy may be an option.

 

[sculpin01]

Welp. Apparently I get to try to fix this after all...

 

[justy]

I have it in three corals now, I have been dosing AA very heavily in an attempt to bring nutrient levels up, could over feeding and it's relationship with photosynthesis cause these symptoms?
I'm going to stop AA completely and see what happens.

 

[sculpin01]

I would bet it would be AA and there relationships to bacterial populations.

 

[justy]

I would bet it would be AA and there relationships to bacterial populations.

Maybe! also I have noticed that my Mg is relatively high at 1500, considering I do not dose it, the only additions are in my WC water. Could it be that calcification is being affected some how and Mg is not being incorporated in the normal way? Hence a build up of left over Mg?
I'm doing a WC every day for a few days, prior to the WC I sent off an ICP.
We will see if that shows anything?

 

[IconCorals]

Welp. Apparently I get to try to fix this after all...

That doesn't look like the issue we are discussing in this thread, IMO that's something new

 

[IconCorals]

(PDF) Corals in the genus Porites are susceptible to infection by a larval trematode

PDF | On Oct 1, 2003, G.S. Aeby published Corals in the genus Porites are susceptible to infection by a larval trematode | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

The infection on the coral we are seeing is the same as what's discussed in the paper above, seen across the ocean mainly in Porites, to break the "life cycle" I removed all snails/invertebrates. It's a type of Larval Termatode - quick google on that can give you an easy picture diagram of exactly what they are.

I also removed my Fish and swapped them between two fresh tanks over the period of a month to remove the Larval Trematode from their guts before coming back into the main system.

 

[sculpin01]

That doesn't look like the issue we are discussing in this thread, IMO that's something new

That coral did not survive. I agree that is something else (possibly calicoblastic epithelioma) as the skeleton itself was altered.

 

[sculpin01]

(PDF) Corals in the genus Porites are susceptible to infection by a larval trematode

PDF | On Oct 1, 2003, G.S. Aeby published Corals in the genus Porites are susceptible to infection by a larval trematode | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

The infection on the coral we are seeing is the same as what's discussed in the paper above, seen across the ocean mainly in Porites, to break the "life cycle" I removed all snails/invertebrates. It's a type of Larval Termatode - quick google on that can give you an easy picture diagram of exactly what they are.

I also removed my Fish and swapped them between two fresh tanks over the period of a month to remove the Larval Trematode from their guts before coming back into the main system.

If this is the case, would anti-trematode medications (milbemycin, ivermectin, praziquantel) be effective?

 

[Mad Doc]

If this is the case, would anti-trematode medications (milbemycin, ivermectin, praziquantel) be effective?

I don’t think so, I did treat with milbemycin for white bugs and that got rid of the bugs but I do no see any improvement to the polyps, they are still tulliping, it’s so weird, I have reduced my UV channel by half and corrected my 2 part dosing to see if this helps. So far can not find an answer as to why the polyps get this way, if I put new frags they look perfect for a while, then suddenly start becoming like a tulip, they are still out and coral still encrust and can see growth on some. It’s extremely weird and frustrating. I’m going to take few of them to a mate and see how long it takes to recover if they do at all.

 

[Mad Doc]

I stuck with it and it went away. My theory is still some excess nutrients infecting corals. But I have no definitive evidence, just that mine cleared up eventually.

Were you having the exact same issues like the photos in the beginning of the thread? Tulip looking polyps?

 

[justy]

Is it possible that Tulip Polyp Syndrome is the same or similar process that is going on in bounce mushrooms?
They look remarkably similar, obviously one has to lay down a skeleton the other doesn't.
Any thoughts?

 

[chcgregg]

Has anyone had their corals recover from this?