Tulip-polyp syndrome and neoplasia

[East1]

I have been considering switching to AFR or the TM balling method, but that would mean adding dosing pump(s). Also, PH tends to be on the low end in my tanks, so the boost I get from kalk is nice to have.

I suppose hand dosing some elements daily based on ICP wouldn't be a bad idea. Going to send another in another ICP anyway since i changed salts.

I had the same issue with low PH, I remedied it by putting an air pump into an airtight container with a small tube out the window and the pump running to an airstone in my display, but the bump from Kalk can be helpful, though I suspect that the bump from Kalk is also contributing to the issues we're facing in this thread.

Let me know your ICP results, I'm curious.

if you're willing to switch to dosing pumps you can consider an 'all in one' balling system like Aquaforest Component 123 (this was what the guy I recommend switching from kalk used) as it also supplements a lot of the daily dosing you'd be doing, and then you can use a targeted system to suit.
Alternatively what I do is use AFR for my alk, and then use Tropic Marin A- and K+ elements to make up the trace element defeciency as my tank doesn't consume enough alkalinity to meet the trace demand just with AFR (ie. I end up with too much Ca to get the required trace elements or defecient in elements if I use AFR just to make up Ca and Alk, how I ended up in this thread initially)

Thanks for your response! Just to provide some details:
140 gallon tank, 35 gallon sump
Alk: between 8-9 - last three weeks before that running 7-8. Swings about 1 point in a day.
Cal: consistent 400-430 on apex; probably 20 points higher than that based on confirming ICP tests.
Mag: 1350 - 1400 consistent

Been running AF probiotic (several threads on it with a lot of detail) with nutrients of NO4: 13-20 over last few months; PO4: 0.14-0.20 same period. Trying to get those to <10 and 0.10 consistent.

Your nutrients and levels seem good, and your levels too. If you're just dosing AF123 and getting tuliped polyps I'd recommend trying to dial in your dosage and perhaps lower Ca, I think the lower your nutrients go the commensurately lower kH and Ca should be

Ca should be an indirect lowering, ie it should just be lower than 410 when kH is around 7 from experience, but the issue is that the excess bicarbonate (and by reason, actually just excess carbon availability) at lower nutrients due to the excess carbon from the bicarbonate ion.

In the coral tissue, the bicarbonate ion is broken down and gives a CO2 molecule, which is used for photosynthesis. too much and can cause bleaching and excess metabolism because the output of the excess CO2 + Light in the area of zoox is O2 and this raises internal pH of coral tissue (it's why a lot of people associate kH spikes with burnt tips) and I suspect when the ions are not imbalanced enough WRT nutrients to cause the burnt tips it causes these hyperplastic growths.

I did, anecdotally, help someone with this a while ago and when he began carbon dosing found that this caused the same growths to reappear, so it may be that your AF probiotic regime is too intensive as a result of trying to reduce your nutrient levels, though your targets are good. It would be interesting to see the difference of reducing carbon dosing for the probiotics vs lowering Ca.

Another anecdotal point, I've had acropora not show this hyperplastia deformation and I had Ca as high as 510 when my alk was extremely low (around 4.7-5.3) in a separate series of tests.

 

[dwhanc00]

I had the same issue with low PH, I remedied it by putting an air pump into an airtight container with a small tube out the window and the pump running to an airstone in my display, but the bump from Kalk can be helpful, though I suspect that the bump from Kalk is also contributing to the issues we're facing in this thread.

Let me know your ICP results, I'm curious.

if you're willing to switch to dosing pumps you can consider an 'all in one' balling system like Aquaforest Component 123 (this was what the guy I recommend switching from kalk used) as it also supplements a lot of the daily dosing you'd be doing, and then you can use a targeted system to suit.
Alternatively what I do is use AFR for my alk, and then use Tropic Marin A- and K+ elements to make up the trace element defeciency as my tank doesn't consume enough alkalinity to meet the trace demand just with AFR (ie. I end up with too much Ca to get the required trace elements or defecient in elements if I use AFR just to make up Ca and Alk, how I ended up in this thread initially)



Your nutrients and levels seem good, and your levels too. If you're just dosing AF123 and getting tuliped polyps I'd recommend trying to dial in your dosage and perhaps lower Ca, I think the lower your nutrients go the commensurately lower kH and Ca should be

Ca should be an indirect lowering, ie it should just be lower than 410 when kH is around 7 from experience, but the issue is that the excess bicarbonate (and by reason, actually just excess carbon availability) at lower nutrients due to the excess carbon from the bicarbonate ion.

In the coral tissue, the bicarbonate ion is broken down and gives a CO2 molecule, which is used for photosynthesis. too much and can cause bleaching and excess metabolism because the output of the excess CO2 + Light in the area of zoox is O2 and this raises internal pH of coral tissue (it's why a lot of people associate kH spikes with burnt tips) and I suspect when the ions are not imbalanced enough WRT nutrients to cause the burnt tips it causes these hyperplastic growths.

I did, anecdotally, help someone with this a while ago and when he began carbon dosing found that this caused the same growths to reappear, so it may be that your AF probiotic regime is too intensive as a result of trying to reduce your nutrient levels, though your targets are good. It would be interesting to see the difference of reducing carbon dosing for the probiotics vs lowering Ca.

Another anecdotal point, I've had acropora not show this hyperplastia deformation and I had Ca as high as 510 when my alk was extremely low (around 4.7-5.3) in a separate series of tests.

Thank you! I like these ideas and thoughts. Since they are still growing base, I am going to stick with getting my nutrient levels down then I plan to dial back some of the bacteria dosing. I have added a lot of surface area with additional bio balls and two blocks. Want to give them time as well. Sent out ICP and DOC test today.

 

[dwhanc00]

I had the same issue with low PH, I remedied it by putting an air pump into an airtight container with a small tube out the window and the pump running to an airstone in my display, but the bump from Kalk can be helpful, though I suspect that the bump from Kalk is also contributing to the issues we're facing in this thread.

Let me know your ICP results, I'm curious.

if you're willing to switch to dosing pumps you can consider an 'all in one' balling system like Aquaforest Component 123 (this was what the guy I recommend switching from kalk used) as it also supplements a lot of the daily dosing you'd be doing, and then you can use a targeted system to suit.
Alternatively what I do is use AFR for my alk, and then use Tropic Marin A- and K+ elements to make up the trace element defeciency as my tank doesn't consume enough alkalinity to meet the trace demand just with AFR (ie. I end up with too much Ca to get the required trace elements or defecient in elements if I use AFR just to make up Ca and Alk, how I ended up in this thread initially)



Your nutrients and levels seem good, and your levels too. If you're just dosing AF123 and getting tuliped polyps I'd recommend trying to dial in your dosage and perhaps lower Ca, I think the lower your nutrients go the commensurately lower kH and Ca should be

Ca should be an indirect lowering, ie it should just be lower than 410 when kH is around 7 from experience, but the issue is that the excess bicarbonate (and by reason, actually just excess carbon availability) at lower nutrients due to the excess carbon from the bicarbonate ion.

In the coral tissue, the bicarbonate ion is broken down and gives a CO2 molecule, which is used for photosynthesis. too much and can cause bleaching and excess metabolism because the output of the excess CO2 + Light in the area of zoox is O2 and this raises internal pH of coral tissue (it's why a lot of people associate kH spikes with burnt tips) and I suspect when the ions are not imbalanced enough WRT nutrients to cause the burnt tips it causes these hyperplastic growths.

I did, anecdotally, help someone with this a while ago and when he began carbon dosing found that this caused the same growths to reappear, so it may be that your AF probiotic regime is too intensive as a result of trying to reduce your nutrient levels, though your targets are good. It would be interesting to see the difference of reducing carbon dosing for the probiotics vs lowering Ca.

Another anecdotal point, I've had acropora not show this hyperplastia deformation and I had Ca as high as 510 when my alk was extremely low (around 4.7-5.3) in a separate series of tests.

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