Tunze 5017 overflows some nights

[Krw]

My 3 month old Tunze 5017 overflows the sump about 1 night a week? Is the optical sensor sensitive to light reflection from the refugium grow light?? It’s the only difference between day and night operations. Not a siphon issue as the pump feeds into a kalkwasser reactor above the tank. The grow light hangs high and lights the entire sump. Is there a cure for this issue?

 

[rvitko]

Yes, optic sensors work on infrared light, while most lighting will not affect them, grow light spectrum includes infrared and will cause issues with the sensor. Generally just getting the sensor out of the path of the light is sufficient.

 

[Joe31415]

Doesn't the 5017 have the backup float sensor? That should shut down the pump and sound an alarm that could wake the dead.
In any case, like rvitko said, IR light could cause issues. It should be easy enough to test though. Get something to block the fuge light from the sensor and see if it happens over the next week or two. If not, you've (likely) found the problem and can find a more permanent solution, like getting the sensor moved into a shadow/dark area or shielding it from the light.
If you're still having problems, you could grab a water level sensor that you set well above the ATO sensor(s) which would cut power to the pump if the water gets too high. I'm not recommending/vouching for this one, it's just the first one I saw on the BRS site, but something like this: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/smart-level-security-autoaqua.html

 

[Krw]

Yes, optic sensors work on infrared light, while most lighting will not affect them, grow light spectrum includes infrared and will cause issues with the sensor. Generally just getting the sensor out of the path of the light is sufficient.

So blocking the light at night worked. But today I come home and the system has added about 2 gallons of RO water from the reservoir while no light was on? Is this optic sensor bad right out of the box

 

[Krw]

Doesn't the 5017 have the backup float sensor? That should shut down the pump and sound an alarm that could wake the dead.
In any case, like rvitko said, IR light could cause issues. It should be easy enough to test though. Get something to block the fuge light from the sensor and see if it happens over the next week or two. If not, you've (likely) found the problem and can find a more permanent solution, like getting the sensor moved into a shadow/dark area or shielding it from the light.
If you're still having problems, you could grab a water level sensor that you set well above the ATO sensor(s) which would cut power to the pump if the water gets too high. I'm not recommending/vouching for this one, it's just the first one I saw on the BRS site, but something like this: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/smart-level-security-autoaqua.html

 

[Krw]

Thanks for the info blocked the light thought problem was solved. No issue for about two weeks. Came home today to find about two gallons of RO dumped in even with no light on. Wife who is working from home does not appreciate loud noise coming from fish tank area. So what is wrong with this thing.

 

[Joe31415]

I have another suggestion then. Remove some water or raise the sensor so it triggers the water to turn on. While it's running, lift the float by hand and see if that shuts it off and sounds the alarm.

 

[rvitko]

Also, make sure that you don't have a siphon, the hose must end above the water level in your reservoir, for example, if your reservoir is 18" high and full and your hose ends 15" above the ground, 3" of water will siphon in when the pump stops and none of the safeties can stop this. Keep in mind the return hose can route to any point, you can route it to your overflow box or main tank, a properly plumbed system will always have the sump return chamber fill up first regardless of where the water is added.

 

[Joe31415]

Also, make sure that you don't have a siphon, the hose must end above the water level in your reservoir, for example, if your reservoir is 18" high and full and your hose ends 15" above the ground, 3" of water will siphon in when the pump stops and none of the safeties can stop this. Keep in mind the return hose can route to any point, you can route it to your overflow box or main tank, a properly plumbed system will always have the sump return chamber fill up first regardless of where the water is added.

I stuck a little airline check valve on the end of the tube so that (with the tube out of water) it doesn't lose it's prime.

 

[rvitko]

Just keep in mind, a check valve cannot stop the flow of water in the direction we intend it to go, this is one of the reasons we don't suggest or include one, they generally serve no real purpose as they would only stop a back siphon, which can only happen when the hose touches the water at the dispensing point, an air gap will stop this and never fail.

 

[Joe31415]

Just keep in mind, a check valve cannot stop the flow of water in the direction we intend it to go, this is one of the reasons we don't suggest or include one, they generally serve no real purpose as they would only stop a back siphon, which can only happen when the hose touches the water at the dispensing point, an air gap will stop this and never fail.

I'm not quite sure I understand the first part of your post, but in any case, my ATO hose is quite a distance higher than the sump water will ever (hopefully) be. I just stuck it on there since it happened to be near me at the time and as part of some troubleshooting I was trying to get it to stop losing it's prime (ATO bucket is a few feet below the sump). In any case, it's just stuck on the end of the house, if for some reason it would get clogged the pressure the ATO pump would likely just push the check valve off the end of the tube.

 

[Berlibee]

I have exactly the same thing happening and waking up in cold sweat when I hear the alarm. ;Woot

 

[rvitko]

My point was that the check valve will not stop siphon situation 3 as shown here, you must have point A above point B

 

[Krw]

I have another suggestion then. Remove some water or raise the sensor so it triggers the water to turn on. While it's running, lift the float by hand and see if that shuts it off and sounds the alarm.

Just keep in mind, a check valve cannot stop the flow of water in the direction we intend it to go, this is one of the reasons we don't suggest or include one, they generally serve no real purpose as they would only stop a back siphon, which can only happen when the hose touches the water at the dispensing point, an air gap will stop this and never fail.

No Siphon the pump feeds a Lime water reactor that sits above the sump the supply water is below the reactor. The shutoff float is about 3 gallons above the IR level sensor. Why does the system just every once in a while overfill the demand of the level sensor? It maybe that the float switch stops the pump but the alarm scares my family at night.

 

[rvitko]

KRW, could I get a photo that shows an overview of the reservoir, reactor and sump? It is unusual for the optic sensor to cause an overfill, it generally wont fill if the sensor is failing. Usually an overfill issue will be infrared light interference, a small system and the timed fills are causing the issue or a siphon.

 

[Joe31415]

My point was that the check valve will not stop siphon situation 3 as shown here, you must have point A above point B

Okay, I understand what you mean now. I just wasn't thinking of it like that.
My ATO resivour is in my basement right below the sump, so siphoning would be an issue if the tube was in the water, I was just trying to keep it primed it didn't have to spend the first 30 seconds pumping all the air back out.

Something else I've found out is that if you have your RODI line directly into the saltwater mixing bucket and shut off the water source, the tube can siphon the salt water back through the DI resin and out the drain and ruin and brand new batch of resin in a few minutes....now I have a valve on the output of the RODI that gets shut off when I turn the water off.
It took me a few days to figure out how the first batch of resin lasted so long and the second only made it through 50 gallons or so.

 

[Krw]

KRW, could I get a photo that shows an overview of the reservoir, reactor and sump? It is unusual for the optic sensor to cause an overfill, it generally wont fill if the sensor is failing. Usually an overfill issue will be infrared light interference, a small system and the timed fills are causing the issue or a siphon.

Below are the photos as best I could get. The Kalkwasser reactor is not being used to block the light. The hose from the pump runs along the ground and then up into reactor via the vinyl hose. The RO water tank with pump sits below the refugium,

 

[rvitko]

How does the kalkwasser reactor work, does the kalk just overflow the top?

This is not likely a culprit, but the optic sensor mount is wrong, I would correct it just to be sure-

 

[Krw]

How does the kalkwasser reactor work, does the kalk just overflow the top?

This is not likely a culprit, but the optic sensor mount is wrong, I would correct it just to be sure-

It is a two little fishes has a long tube with spray nozzle toward the bottom then water overflows out the top.

 

[Krw]

How does the kalkwasser reactor work, does the kalk just overflow the top?

This is not likely a culprit, but the optic sensor mount is wrong, I would correct it just to be sure-