Two part dosing containers

[Boxofpurplerocks]

Quick question for everyone regarding dosing instructions for BRS (Randy’s) two part. If I understand correctly, both cal and alk should be dosed in equal amounts. This means, if I’m dosing 10ml/day of alk solution, I should be dosing 10ml/day of ca solution, correct? So both containers will be exhausted at the same point?

I know there are slight differences in consumption and alk may likely get consumed quicker, however I’m just trying to confirm the basics before changing things up. Just recently added in two part dosing, as I’ve hit the evaporation limit for dosing saturated kalk. Thanks I’m advance!

 

[FactoryKTMmotocross46]

Alk and Cal should be dosed to maintain stable parameters. I have never heard of anyone actually dosing equal amounts.

 

[Boxofpurplerocks]

Alk and Cal should be dosed to maintain stable parameters. I have never heard of anyone actually dosing equal amounts.

Well when you dose kalkwasser, you are dosing equal amounts of cal and alk, there’s no way to adjust the ratio there, so anybody who doses kalk is dosing in equal amounts. I will adjust as needed, but will begin by basing dosages on alk consumption (as is done with kalk).

Just looking to confirm that when you mix both solutions using the 1 gallon packages, that both solutions will provide equal amounts of Ca and Alk.

 

[FactoryKTMmotocross46]

Well when you dose kalkwasser, you are dosing equal amounts of cal and alk. Works for a lot of people. I will adjust as needed, but basing dosages off of alk consumption and dosing the corresponding amount of Ca seems fairly common.

Yeah. With the brs 2part I am dosing 180ml of alk and 130ml of cal.

 

[Hubert J. Farnsworth]

Quick question for everyone regarding dosing instructions for BRS (Randy’s) two part. If I understand correctly, both cal and alk should be dosed in equal amounts. This means, if I’m dosing 10ml/day of alk solution, I should be dosing 10ml/day of ca solution, correct? So both containers will be exhausted at the same point?

I know there are slight differences in consumption and alk may likely get consumed quicker, however I’m just trying to confirm the basics before changing things up. Just recently added in two part dosing, as I’ve hit the evaporation limit for dosing saturated kalk. Thanks I’m advance!

i'm pretty sure the brs/randy 2 part system was designed as a balanced system in that you should be dosing equal amounts of each solution. as you note, alkalinity is much more transient in most systems than calcium.

as a result, and you can use the brs calculator to test support this, you will see that if you had a 100 gal system and dosed 100 ml of each solution, you would move your alk 1.4 dkh and your calcium about 10 ppm.

 

[Boxofpurplerocks]

i'm pretty sure the brs/randy 2 part system was designed as a balanced system in that you should be dosing equal amounts of each solution. as you note, alkalinity is much more transient in most systems than calcium.

as a result, and you can use the brs calculator to test support this, you will see that if you had a 100 gal system and dosed 100 ml of each solution, you would move your alk 1.4 dkh and your calcium about 10 ppm.

Got it, this is what I wanted to confirm, that it is a balanced additive and can be dosed as such. Thank you!

 

[Hubert J. Farnsworth]

i should have probably also said don't forget to keep testing, as they can drift an require occasional corrections over time.

here's a deeper dive, by RHF

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

 

[RickSanford]

FWIW - I end up dosing almost 2.5x more Alkalinity than Calcium (based on measured consumption).

 

[landlubber]

5 years later i don't understand it myself. i was always told 2-part is to be dosed in equal parts but its never really been this way in practice. i just follow test results and respond accordingly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

5 years later i don't understand it myself. i was always told 2-part is to be dosed in equal parts but its never really been this way in practice. i just follow test results and respond accordingly.

There are a variety of technical reasons that a tank may consume more or less alkalinity than expected based on the calcium consumption (expected is 2.8 dKH per 18-20 ppm calcium), but with a few exceptions, the biggest factors are not really consumption issues, but faulty interpretation or implementation issues. This article has details:

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

In general, the smaller is the real demand by calcifying organisms (which is definitely fixed at 2.8 dKH per 18-20 ppm calcium), the more easily is the mismatch to be attained by minor processes contributing to the observed ratio.
These "confounding" issues are

1. Water changes with mixes that do not match the tank in both calcium and alkalinity.
2. Assuming (mistakenly) that their dosers are exactly matched.
3. Assuming (mistakenly) that the product they are using was properly designed for 1:1 dosing (even some that claim it are wrong).
4. Mistakenly using the alk recipe for one method and the calcium recipe from another.
5. Top off with tap water than can add alk or calcium

The actual reasons for mismatched consumption include:

1. Nitrate dosing or nitrate declining (raises alkalinity)
2. Nitrate accumulating (reduces alkalinty)
3. Sulfur denitrator (reduces alkalinity)


Some folks who have very carefully analyzed what they thought might be mismatched demand have found it really is properly matched when the necessary time and effort is expended to be certain everything is doing what it should (like dosers, etc.).

 

[blasterman]

Typically what you do with two part dosing is target alkalinity first to keep it on mark. Always solve for alk first. Calcium can vary a significant amount before it affects growth.

Reef tanks will either utilize the same amount of calcium as alk, or less. Never more.

 

[Boxofpurplerocks]

Typically what you do with two part dosing is target alkalinity first to keep it on mark. Always solve for alk first. Calcium can vary a significant amount before it affects growth.

Reef tanks will either utilize the same amount of calcium as alk, or less. Never more.

Right. What I was asking, and should have clarified better, is will dosing BRS two-part Calcium chloride and Soda Ash (mixed according to specifications) in equal volumes cause equal additions of Calcium and Alkalinity to the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Right. What I was asking, and should have clarified better, is will dosing BRS two-part Calcium chloride and Soda Ash (mixed according to specifications) in equal volumes cause equal additions of Calcium and Alkalinity to the tank.

That is my recipe and it is designed for equal parts dosing. That said, if you are confident in your kits, it is fine to dose off 1:1.

 

[Willbiker]

I recently got into dosing and bought a 2 part product. I too read that I should start by dosing equally. after 5 months in, my calcium solution usage is 10 times higher than my alk solution usage. So my advice would be not to dose equally. Instead do an alk and calc test each day at the same time of day and measure the consumption of each in 24 hour period. Then use the online calculator to calculate a daily dose rate or just go for a low number and see how the levels react. I just slowly upped my quantities each day until I found the right balance but definitely treat alk and calc separate and test each day at the same time of day to help tweak the dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I recently got into dosing and bought a 2 part product. I too read that I should start by dosing equally. after 5 months in, my calcium solution usage is 10 times higher than my alk solution usage. So my advice would be not to dose equally. Instead do an alk and calc test each day at the same time of day and measure the consumption of each in 24 hour period. Then use the online calculator to calculate a daily dose rate or just go for a low number and see how the levels react. I just slowly upped my quantities each day until I found the right balance but definitely treat alk and calc separate and test each day at the same time of day to help tweak the dose.

Let's back up because I find these sorts of anecdotes can be very misleading. This 10x difference is very extreme and the explanation should be clear if we understood more.

What product are you using and how much of each part are you adding to an aquarium of what size?

The reason for asking is multi purpose.

Maybe the product you are using is not intended for 1:1 dosing (some are not).

Maybe the product is not correctly designed for 1:1 dosing (some claiming to be are not).

Maybe you are adding alkalinity in other ways and do not realize it.

Maybe the excess calcium additions are trying to make up for a high alk low calcium mix used for water changes (like Instant Ocean).

 

[Willbiker]

Let's back up because I find these sorts of anecdotes can be very misleading. This 10x difference is very extreme and the explanation should be clear if we understood more.

What product are you using and how much of each part are you adding to an aquarium of what size?

The reason for asking is multi purpose.

Maybe the product you are using is not intended for 1:1 dosing (some are not).

Maybe the product is not correctly designed for 1:1 dosing (some claiming to be are not).

Maybe you are adding alkalinity in other ways and do not realize it.

Maybe the excess calcium additions are trying to make up for a high alk low calcium mix used for water changes (like Instant Ocean).

Why do I need to back up. I'm not advising the guy to do anything other than to take the rule, that both solutions can be does equally, with a pinch of salt. I found this advice to be wrong. I have simply said that with my setup, my calcium dosing required is a lot higher than my alk and my level are perfect and constant and that to treat each parameter separately.

 

[Willbiker]

I use ati essentials 2 part and ati advise to dose both equally. This would have been incredibly wrong for my setup

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why do I need to back up. I'm not advising the guy to do anything other than to take the rule, that both solutions can be does equally, with a pinch of salt. I found this advice to be wrong. I have simply said that with my setup, my calcium dosing required is a lot higher than my alk and my level are perfect and constant and that to treat each parameter separately.

Your claim is vague, and IMO, potentially misleading. I want folks to understand why it may sometimes be wrong to dose 1:1, and when it is not wrong.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use ati essentials 2 part and ati advise to dose both equally. This would have been incredibly wrong for my setup

That may very well be so, but your case is very extreme, and it may have a simple explanation that would be more useful to readers than simply claiming that 1:1 dosing can be way off.

There's a big interpretation difference between dosing 10x when it means:

0.1 dKH per day and 7 ppm of calcium per day (this one can be explained in various ways)
or
3 dKH per day and 200 ppm calcium (this one is much. harder to explain, for obvious reasons)

 

[Willbiker]

Your claim is vague, and IMO, potentially misleading. I want folks to understand why it may sometimes be wrong to dose 1:1, and when it is not wrong.

Im just sharing my experience. I advised to measure consumption and treat each parameter separately. This was my intention.