Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[sixty_reefer]

There was a chart for Busan 77. It's the algae fix chart. "The Algaefix chemical is also known by the trade name Busan 77 or the more recently EPA-favored name polixetonium chloride"

Really annoying that you hop in a 75 page conversation without reading any of the information.

Not annoying just putting the facts out there, allegedly there is one product that may not contain what it says, does that mean that the other allegedly will contain what it says also? Does two wrongs makes a right?
My concern is that it’s assumed that a product is correct and used for reference instead of using the raw materials as a reference, if it only contains busan 77 should of been a clean match although the reference we got it’s from this cropped picture from this china site, that to me raises concern. If you were bothered in examining the content I wouldn’t have to be annoying.
if a scientist in randy’s company was to assume something like this, it would of have been shown the door straight away, I would imagine.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

Do you call that a good research? independently of the results?

 

[MnFish1]

Not annoying just putting the facts out there, allegedly there is one product that may not contain what it says, does that mean that the other allegedly will contain what it says also? Does two wrongs makes a right?
My concern is that it’s assumed that a product is correct instead of using the raw materials as a reference, if it only contains busan 77 should of been a clean match although the reference we got it’s from this china site, that to me raises concern. If you were bothered in examining the content I wouldn’t have to be annoying.
if a scientist in randy’s company was to assume something like this, it would of have been shown the door straight away, I would imagine.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

Do you call that a good research independently of the results?

This started out with does vibrant contain fluconazole - to my recollection (at least that was one thread) This was another - lets prove product xxx is not xxx but really yyyy.. And - in fact - If I am going to believe the (not independent) NMR results - I woudl say - its proven. however - the tests weren't independent. The company has not released its tests - so IMHO - its a limbo, I agree the samples sent for NMR - for vibrant and algaefix - show extreme similarities. Does that mean its true - or independent - no. Am I accusing or suggesting that anyone here is doing something illicit - NO. I'm just saying.. Do I think that its totally weird that UWC has not responded? YES. Do I think its weird that other sites are still selling vibrant (YES) - do I have any clue as to what is the truth and what is not NO. Am I a lawyer - NO. Do I have enough chemistry knowledge to know who is right and who is wrong - NO.

 

[MnFish1]

There was a chart for Busan 77. It's the algae fix chart. "The Algaefix chemical is also known by the trade name Busan 77 or the more recently EPA-favored name polixetonium chloride"

Really annoying that you hop in a 75 page conversation without reading any of the information.

SO you say the chart was available. Randy says there is not one available. Which is correct?

 

[MnFish1]

There was a chart for Busan 77. It's the algae fix chart. "The Algaefix chemical is also known by the trade name Busan 77 or the more recently EPA-favored name polixetonium chloride"

Really annoying that you hop in a 75 page conversation without reading any of the information.

Lets ask you how many times have you hopped into this conversation - just saying - I'm not sure you're that active a participant? Besides - thats not a criteria for posting here

 

[xiaoxiy]

Again, from a chemical analysis perspective, the NMR and IR between Busan 77 and Vibrant are identical. Moreover, the NMR also shows that Vibrant does not contain any of the substances they claim it does.

Unless Tacharia and JDA lied, actually didn’t send in Vibrant and sent in Busan 77 instead, they are the same chemical.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Again, from a chemical analysis perspective, the NMR and IR between Busan 77 and Vibrant are identical. Moreover, the NMR also shows that Vibrant does not contain any of the substances they claim it does.

Unless Tacharia and JDA lied, actually didn’t send in Vibrant and sent in Busan 77 instead, they are the same chemical.

I’d just like to clarify that I’m not implying that anyone has been intentionally dishonest.

 

[jda]

I cannot do this anymore... What are the people who own/run this board thinking allowing self-importance to trump the interests of the hobby and the other members? The TOS has holes since this is allowed to happen. You are going to lose the vary people who put in all of the hard work on this if you don't fix this - too many are already gone for good.

All - I purposely only sent in Vibrant and not both substances so that nobody could think that the same bottle got tested twice.

For all of you self-important folks, who lack the either the emotional intelligence and/or self awareness to see what is happening and what you are doing - it took me two minutes to figure out who made this stuff and send them a email asking for spectrum analysis. It is not mine to post, and I am guessing that this is too much like real work unlike trying to outsmart real experts on a forum so this will never get done, but you can do this too. I also laid out how normal people can get their own tests done instead of playing arm-chair forum seagull... but that also seems too far from self-importance too to happen either.

 

[MnFish1]

Again, from a chemical analysis perspective, the NMR and IR between Busan 77 and Vibrant are identical. Moreover, the NMR also shows that Vibrant does not contain any of the substances they claim it does.

Unless Tacharia and JDA lied, actually didn’t send in Vibrant and sent in Busan 77 instead, they are the same chemical.

Right - who said something different? If you're suggesting me - in my last post - I did not . I said basically in any situation - anyone can post anything. I did not mean to imply/suggest that that was done here - but I also don't think that someone who questions something should be vilified

 

[MnFish1]

I cannot do this anymore... What are the people who own/run this board thinking allowing self-importance to trump the interests of the hobby and the other members? The TOS has holes since this is allowed to happen. You are going to lose the vary people who put in all of the hard work on this if you don't fix this - too many are already gone for good.

All - I purposely only sent in Vibrant and not both substances so that nobody could think that the same bottle got tested twice.

For all of you self-important folks, who lack the either the emotional intelligence and/or self awareness to see what is happening and what you are doing - it took me two minutes to figure out who made this stuff and send them a email asking for spectrum analysis. It is not mine to post, and I am guessing that this is too much like real work unlike trying to outsmart real experts on a forum so this will never get done, but you can do this too. I also laid out how normal people can get their own tests done instead of playing arm-chair forum seagull... but that also seems too far from self-importance too to happen either.

Great - glad you have closure - as do 99 percent of the people posting here - including myself.

 

[xiaoxiy]

Right - who said something different? If you're suggesting me - in my last post - I did not.

Sixty keeps saying the data doesn’t match, which is an erroneous interpretation. It’s identical, both NMR and IR.

At this point, the only way Vibrant and Algaefix are not the same compound is if JDA and Taricha falsified the data. Moreover, unless they falsified the data, it is very clear that Vibrant does not have any of the other ingredients listed on its label either, based on the NMR data. It’s too clean to have anything else.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I think I want to try some of that vibrant..

 

[sixty_reefer]

Sixty keeps saying the data doesn’t match, which is an erroneous interpretation. It’s identical, both NMR and IR.

I said no such thing, do you mind elaborating on your superficial observation?
I mentioned that there may have been a issue with the contradiction of post #165 that the op admitted earlier that he may have contaminated the samples ( his words not mine) and I raised that the ftir should of been made agains a official ftir of busan 77 instead of a Chinese advert cropped image that Randy confirmed that there isn’t a official reliable ftir for busan 77.
You not a very good scientist to understand what I am saying are you?

 

[xiaoxiy]

I said no such thing, do you mind elaborating on your superficial observation?
I mentioned that there may have been a issue with the contradiction of post #165 that the op admitted earlier that he may have contaminated the samples ( his words not mine) and I raised that the ftir should of been made agains a official ftir of busan 77 instead of a Chinese advert cropped image that Randy confirmed that there isn’t a official reliable ftir for busan 77.
You not a very good scientist to understand what I am saying are you?

Really?

I don’t see a match on the ftir could you explain to me how it matches?

 

[xiaoxiy]

They have different peaks how is that a match?

Am referring to this chart we’re algaefix and vibrant are side by side, in addition I was looking at charts from Roseobacticide this afternoon that seem to have a similar transmittance to algaefix and vibrant.

To me I only see vibrant matching with vibrant, the algaefix seems low and different peaks. I didn’t save the ftir from roseobacticide as I didn’t wanted to get involved further in the discussion although the peaks are very similar if not identical, and there’s a few articles online that will demonstrate that you can harvest roseobacticide from bacteria.

 

[sixty_reefer]

@xiaoxiy That’s a question not a statement and Randy was kind enough to explain me how it works. I was seeing a few peaks in the blue line that I couldn’t see on the red line although it seems not important for the overall fingerprint in addition the upside down chart did confuse me also and Randy once again was really kind and understanding in explaining me the process.

 

[xiaoxiy]

Algaefix is Busan 77. Thus the IR and NMR that Tacharia received for Algaefix is the IR and NMR for Busan 77. The NMR and IR for Vibrant is identical to Algaefix, and thus Busan 77. Unless Taricha falsified NMR and IR for Algaefix, Vibrant is Busan 77.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Not annoying just putting the facts out there, allegedly there is one product that may not contain what it says, does that mean that the other allegedly will contain what it says also? Does two wrongs makes a right?
My concern is that it’s assumed that a product is correct and used for reference instead of using the raw materials as a reference, if it only contains busan 77 should of been a clean match although the reference we got it’s from this cropped picture from this china site, that to me raises concern. If you were bothered in examining the content I wouldn’t have to be annoying.
if a scientist in randy’s company was to assume something like this, it would of have been shown the door straight away, I would imagine.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

Do you call that a good research? independently of the results?

Algaefix is Busan 77. Thus the IR and NMR that Tacharia received for Algaefix is the IR and NMR for Busan 77. The NMR and IR for Vibrant is identical to Algaefix, and thus Busan 77. Unless Tacharia falsified NMR and IR for Algaefix, Vibrant is Busan 77.

There’s a quote from an earlier poster, I’m saying that the method may be wrong regardless of the result, do you make this kind of assumptions at work also?

 

[happyhourhero]

Mercy

 

[polyppal]

The investment of time and energy a few trolls are pouring into this ridiculous argument is pretty sad.

For gods sake, get off the computer and go outside and take a walk or visit a pub or go see the new Top Gun or something... Get some semblance of a life.

 

[Mike konesky]

Lets ask you how many times have you hopped into this conversation - just saying - I'm not sure you're that active a participant? Besides - thats not a criteria for posting here

Let's ask how much of this thread I read and followed since the start. Stating a fact that someone obviously chose to ignore is in line I believe, especially when that person continues on 4 pages of ignorance. I didn't take part in this conversation because I don't know anything but what I've learned here on the topic.

Cheers bro. Get mad