URGENT! Looking for advice on red sponges!

[AydenLincoln]

I’m at the fish store and see these beautiful sponges. I know they need to be fed phytoplankton constantly or they will slowly starve. If it dies will it nuke a tank? Is it a bad idea? Thoughts?

 

[Mikedawg]

Bad idea; I think I recently read that your tank is having "issues" from low temps to maintaining good water parameters. Just plan to visit those sponges in the LFS and save your money - they are difficult to keep alive long term and why take the chance of killing something because you don't have the correct set up?

You'll have other opportunities in the future. And, yes, I'm a grandfather, lol

 

[AydenLincoln]

Bad idea; I think I recently read that your tank is having "issues" from low temps to maintaining good water parameters. Just plan to visit those sponges in the LFS and save your money - they are difficult to keep alive long term and why take the chance of killing something because you don't have the correct set up?

You'll have other opportunities in the future. And, yes, I'm a grandfather, lol

I don’t think that was me. But thanks.

 

[Montiman]

My personal experience with sponges is that I have never been able to keep the main colony alive but I purchased a yellow ball sponge years ago that died, but 6 months later the bottom of all of my rocks was coated in the yellow sponge. All of the office tanks I have taken frags to have the yellow sponge and the yellow sponge that has since grown seems invincible.

Sponges do not ship well and often die in short order, but If any lives it may prove very hardy. I would keep the sponge in the dark and feed it well. It can also be beneficial to make sure there are some detectable silicates in the water.

 

[AydenLincoln]

It’s worth noting I do have a reef lobster tank. I could try it in. With no a heavy bioload and good parameters and other macroalgae and no starfish to potentially eat it lol.

 

[WheatToast]

I know they need to be fed phytoplankton constantly or they will slowly starve.

They cannot feed on algae (even phytoplankton particles are too large) and instead primarily feed on bacteria (I hear they prefer particle sizes under 0.5 micrometers).

From what I’ve seen with the few sponge diets I’ve looked into at present, I’m also inclined to agree that they don’t eat much phytoplankton- they seem to typically eat bacteria and organic nutrients (such as Dissolved Organic Carbon - DOC).

Another possibility for the sudden growth is you may have somehow (likely in the removal process with the algae) released/kicked up a large amount of bacteria or nutrients into the water column for the sponge to feed on.

 

[davidcalgary29]

I've had an orange ball sponge in my RSR350 for a year and a half. It's doing fine in a dark corner without supplemental feeding...but it does quickly get covered with detritus. It's fine if you don't mind seeing just a hemisphere of orange...and one of grey.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

The info I’ve compiled on sponges so far:

Most sponges that I’ve looked into primarily consume Dissolved Organic Matter (DOM - sometimes called Dissolved Organic Carbon, or DOC, which is actually a component of DOM) and specific kinds of bacteria (which kinds vary at least a little from one sponge to another). Most of them seem to have no preference for where their DOC comes from, but they have a preference for algal-derived Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (i.e. DON produced by algae). Giant Barrel Sponges and some Boring Sponges have had their diets analyzed, and they primarily consume DOM (~80% of their total diet, with the remaining ~20% coming from Particulate Organic Matter (POM - primarily phytoplankton and bacteria, though, as mentioned above, bacteria is taken in much higher quantities than phyto). This ratio of approximately 80/20 seems to be pretty typical(though it can vary from what I've seen by +/-15% or so one way or another) for most sponges from what I can find.

Unfortunately, we don’t have an easy, hobbyist way to measure DOM, DOC, DON, or POM (or POC or PON) that I’m aware of, so we don't really have any way to determine if the sponges are getting enough food consistently to thrive (to say nothing of measuring the amounts of specific bacteria in our tanks), but there you have it.

If you do some reading on sponge keeping here on R2R, you'll probably find pretty quickly that most people recommend low lighting low flow for sponges (exceptions for photosynthetic sponges), but the truth is this also depends on the sponge species. The most common photosynthetic sponges in the hobby are the photosynthetic plating sponges (like you can find/buy on LiveAquaria's site), but there are quite a few other sponges that are photosynthetic too (such as Aplysina cauliformis, for example), and these would benefit from high lighting. Similarly, some species of sponge do best in very high flow areas, including high flow areas with laminar flow (a lot of people talk about random flow on the site, which would be called turbulent flow, as they're trying to get the water moving basically randomly throughout the tank - laminar flow is just a continuous flow that doesn't change, so the water keeps going the same direction nonstop and there's nothing random about it). If you're not sure if the sponge is photosynthetic or not, you can try starting it in one lighting (such as low lighting), see how it does and then compare it to a different lighting (moderate or high) and figure out its needs from that. Same with the flow. Light will probably be the most important part for photosynthetic species and the food/flow the most important for NPS species - some people have found stirring up their sand to be an effective food source for sponges, likely because it puts bacteria and DOM into the water column. It’s probably safest to start low light/flow and move up, rather than starting high and moving lower.

Some sponges do well in some tanks but not in others for no discernible reason, and some some sponges travel well while other sponges don't. Plus, sometimes a sponge will basically disintegrate into a ton of tiny pieces and look like it's dying, but it'll then proceed to grow and live on afterwards. Similarly, some sponges grow invasively while others grow incredibly slowly, so a lot of keeping these guys at this point really just depends on the luck of the draw (so to speak).

 

[AydenLincoln]

Alright I’m trying one in my lobster tank. I guess you don’t know until you try. I just got a little one that was only about $10.

 

[AydenLincoln]

After doing some more research I believe it’s a Ptilocaulis sp.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Here is the little guy!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

If it is a Ptilocaulis sp., they are often found in exposed, moderate to brightly lit, shallow waters in nature (though I suspect they prefer low, turbulent flow despite being in relatively open locations). I don’t know that the lighting would be terribly important to them though (at least directly).

 

[AydenLincoln]

If it is a Ptilocaulis sp., they are often found in exposed, moderate to brightly lit, shallow waters in nature (though I suspect they prefer low, turbulent flow despite being in relatively open locations). I don’t know that the lighting would be terribly important to them though (at least directly).

It looks like it from googling and the light on that tank is a plant growth light. And I guarantee you it will become lobster food slowly. He seems to slowly nibble on whatever I put in there but no interest in fish food, krill, or mysis just the macroalge. And I haven’t been able to find more sea lettuce since it’s seasonal supposedly.

 

[Sshannon]

Make sure you keep up with silicates in your water, along with feeding

 

[AydenLincoln]

It looks so good under this lighting! It really makes it pop. I added some ChaetoGro too for macroalge which can’t hurt with the trace elements.

 

[AydenLincoln]

After reading reviews I’ll be buying this!

 

[Subsea]

Russ Kronwetter is diver owner of GulfCoast EcoSystems and he collects Red Tree Sponges. Hippo Tang & Algae Blennie as well as Blue Leg Hermit Crabs all graze on sponge new growth. When sponges are growing fast, a white color is visible on the ends and this is where fish & crabs graze.

Note yellow ball sponge with visible algae beginning to restrict vent hole. When this happens, use toothbrush and remove this detritus/algae.

I love how red pops under lights in lobster tank.

<head> <title>Macroalgae For Marine Reef Aquariums: Red Finger Sponge

An attractive red colored sponge that grows vertically. This species is highly variable in branching. We typically collect smaller specimens as they seem to do better in the aquarium. All sponges are filter feeders and should only be placed in established aquariums with plenty of live food available. Do not expose directly to the air as the drying out of any tissue will often kill the sponge. Single specimens are approx 5-8" tall

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If you expect your lobster to eat at it, why put it in that tank? Do you expect the growth to outpace something actively trying to eat it?

 

[Subsea]

It looks so good under this lighting! It really makes it pop. I added some ChaetoGro too for macroalge which can’t hurt with the trace elements.

ChaetoGrow does not have silicates and sponges need silicates.

Guaranteed Analysis:

• Potassium (K) as Soluble Potash (K2O) (min) 1.30%
• Boron 0.009%
• Carbon 0.005%
• Calcium 0.14%
• Chlorine 0.39%
• Cobalt 0.0004%
• Iron 0.1%
• Magnesium 0.4%
• Manganese 0.0475%
• Molybdenum 0.004%
• Sulfur 0.16%
• Zinc 0.002%

PS: Eight years ago, I grew Gracilaria Parvispora, Red Ogo, commercially in Austin for Chinese restaurants and had it analyzed at a regional agriculture lab:

Pricing - Ward Laboratories, Inc.

www.wardlab.com

P-3	SUPER COMPLETE	$35.00
	Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper, Molybdenum, Boron, Chloride

N @ 2.59%
P @ 0.082%
K@ 13.54%
Ca @ 0.555%
Mg @ 1.163%
S @ 4.81%
Zn @ 139 ppm
Fe @ 107 ppm
Mn @ 20 ppm
Cu @ 7.0 ppm

Note: When make up well water was analyzed, Cu was below detectable limit of 0.01ppm. I say algae is a sponge for heavy metals.

 

[AydenLincoln]

If you expect your lobster to eat at it, why put it in that tank? Do you expect the growth to outpace something actively trying to eat it?

So that was a thought but then I asked someone with a reef lobster and did some googling. They don’t seem to eat sponges as part of their diet. Green macroalge and meaty foods like clams…yes.