Using calcium carbonate daily?

[apac]

I’m currently battling a big outbreak of Cyanobacteria.
I’m scrubbing and basting rocks, stirring up sand and using bubble scrubbing several times a day. This proceeds doing a 4 day blackout after about 10 days.

Question, is it ok to use calcium carbonate DAILY as a flocculant (recipe from this forum) to help collect suspended organics?

Here is my regime for anyone interested…..

Cyanobacteria removal.

Day 1: set skimmer to skim wet. Add activated carbon. Use Roller filter.

Day 2: Start bubble scrubbing whilst stirring sand and scrubbing rocks, 1 hour bubbles , 4 times a day.

Turn powerheads up, go to town on the tank whilst bubble scrubbing, scrub rocks, stir sand and clean all traces of the undesirable. Use Calcium carbonate (Reef Zlements Blizzard) or similar.

Day 3: As above, and also use baster or small pump to push detritus from rocks.

Day 4: As above, and dose large amount phyto with UV and skimmer off for a couple of hours. (Phyto every day from now).

Day 5: As above. Dose loads of phyto.

Day 6: Replace activated carbon, dose loads of phyto.

Day 7: Massive scrub of rocks, baste them, dose loads of phyto.

Day 8: final stir up and water change, add phyto, add copepods.

Day 9: Test to see if detritus is still coming from rocks when you blow and scrub, if so have one final go at them. Dose phyto.

Day 10: Replace activated carbon again, give it all a final scrub down and stir. Add loads of Copepods, add loads of phyto.
NOW BLACK OUT THE TANK FOR 4 DAYS.

On day 14 remove blackout. spend a good hour really stirring things up, bubble scrubbing, basting, and scrubbing rocks to get those final dying bits and dead organics into the column and filtered out.

Day 15 Replace carbon AGAIN, add a massive dose of phytoplankton and as many pods as you can.

Test nitrate and if below 10 feed fish heavy.

the next few days DO NOT wipe glass down, let micro and film algae colonise it. Baste the rocks and scrub every couple of days so suspended organics don't build up. Use calcium carbonate/blizzard.

Keep dosing phyto and pods every two of days.

 

[apac]

If you don’t know, bubble scrubbing is placing a bubbling air stone next your powerhead so it sucks in the bubbles, chops them into smaller bubbles and then blows them out into the tank. These bubbles help lift detritus from low in the tank up to the surface and then down into the weir.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m wary of dosing particulates out of concern it may not be desirable for my filter feeders such as sponges.

That aside, it should be ok to dose it daily. It’s a way to export organics. Other ways can also work, such as GAC and skimming and water changes.

 

[Fish Fan]

I appreciate @apac posting their methodology!

I do have a question: would dosing the phyto so much actually be counter productive because certainly some of the phytoplankton will die, which would add organic material that tends to feed cyano?

Thanks in advance!

 

[apac]

I appreciate @apac posting their methodology!

I do have a question: would dosing the phyto so much actually be counter productive because certainly some of the phytoplankton will die, which would add organic material that tends to feed cyano?

Thanks in advance!

The idea being that a macro algae can compete with the Cyano. I will probably dose the phyto later on in my plan posted above. Perhaps once I’ve done a 4 day black out? . But I do agree that the phyto, which I make myself, will only be alive for a day or two once dosed into the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Cyano is not usually driven by high nutrients, so while macroalgae is a good nutrient export method,,I would not expect it to help with Cyano, at least not by reducing nitrate and phosphate.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I appreciate @apac posting their methodology!

I do have a question: would dosing the phyto so much actually be counter productive because certainly some of the phytoplankton will die, which would add organic material that tends to feed cyano?

Thanks in advance!

Not a lot of people know this but the decay of phytoplankton actually can work in a similar way to calcium carbonate, via EPS (Extracellular Polymeric Substances) aiding in the removal of organics from the water column.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not a lot of people know this but the decay of phytoplankton actually can work in a similar way to calcium carbonate, via EPS (Extracellular Polymeric Substances) aiding in the removal of organics from the water column.

Not sure that is making sense to me. How do you think that reduces organics already in the water, and it seems to ignore all the organics in the phyto that are not extracellular.

 

[Dan_P]

Not a lot of people know this but the decay of phytoplankton actually can work in a similar way to calcium carbonate, via EPS (Extracellular Polymeric Substances) aiding in the removal of organics from the water column.

I’d like to read the peer reviewed study of this.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Not sure that is making sense to me. How do you think that reduces organics already in the water, and it seems to ignore all the organics in the phyto that are not extracellular.

I’d like to read the peer reviewed study of this.

This is a article that can explain it further better than me.

Bacteria contribute exopolysaccharides to an algal-bacterial joint extracellular matrix - npj Biofilms and Microbiomes

Marine ecosystems are influenced by phytoplankton aggregation, which affects processes like marine snow formation and harmful events such as marine mucilage outbreaks. Phytoplankton secrete exopolymers, creating an extracellular matrix (ECM) that promotes particle aggregation. This ECM attracts...

www.nature.com

 

[Dan_P]

This is a article that can explain it further better than me.

Bacteria contribute exopolysaccharides to an algal-bacterial joint extracellular matrix - npj Biofilms and Microbiomes

Marine ecosystems are influenced by phytoplankton aggregation, which affects processes like marine snow formation and harmful events such as marine mucilage outbreaks. Phytoplankton secrete exopolymers, creating an extracellular matrix (ECM) that promotes particle aggregation. This ECM attracts...

www.nature.com

Thanks!

This article does not seem to support your statement. Rather, it is a study of a living system, the interaction between an alga and bacteria and the role that EPS plays in forming aggregates. When a aquarist reports the dosing of phytoplankton, it is never clear what fraction of the dose is alive nor how long it lives after it enters the aquarium. Hard to say what fraction of the claims about phytoplankton additions are urban legend.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Thanks!

This article does not seem to support your statement. Rather, it is a study of a living system, the interaction between an alga and bacteria and the role that EPS plays in forming aggregates. When a aquarist reports the dosing of phytoplankton, it is never clear what fraction of the dose is alive nor how long it lives after it enters the aquarium. Hard to say what fraction of the claims about phytoplankton additions are urban legend.

Once phytoplankton decays the cell wall coating contributes for the ESP, forming marine snow that can be exported via protein skimmer or consumed by filter feeders.

 

[Fish Fan]

I appreciate @apac posting their methodology!

I do have a question: would dosing the phyto so much actually be counter productive because certainly some of the phytoplankton will die, which would add organic material that tends to feed cyano?

Thanks in advance!

Cyano is not usually driven by high nutrients, so while macroalgae is a good nutrient export method,,I would not expect it to help with Cyano, at least not by reducing nitrate and phosphate.

Just a follow up to my question about the phyto, I was thinking in terms of organic carbon the Cyano could use from some of the phyto that would undoubtedly die? Adding too much of the phyto seems counterintuitive to me when dealing with Cyano, but maybe I'm incorrect

Thank you for your help!

 

[sixty_reefer]

Just a follow up to my question about the phyto, I was thinking in terms of organic carbon the Cyano could use from some of the phyto that would undoubtedly die? Adding too much of the phyto seems counterintuitive to me when dealing with Cyano, but maybe I'm incorrect

Thank you for your help!

Depends on the species really, most Cyanobacteria species of phytoplankton uses co2 through photosynthesis instead of organic carbon. Some species Are mixotrophy but they still have difficulty in using complex carbohydrates (a large majority of the organic carbon present in phytoplankton such as nannochloropsis).
This organic carbon becomes useful for other beneficial heterotrophic microbes to help compete for space in an aquatic environment.

Hope it helps.

 

[apac]

Depends on the species really, most Cyanobacteria species of phytoplankton uses co2 through photosynthesis instead of organic carbon. Some species Are mixotrophy but they still have difficulty in using complex carbohydrates (a large majority of the organic carbon present in phytoplankton such as nannochloropsis).
This organic carbon becomes useful for other beneficial heterotrophic microbes to help compete for space in an aquatic environment.

Hope it helps.

Wow, I’ve definitely opened a can of worms. So, in conclusion, like most other things in reef keeping…. Nobody really knows for sure.

Update. After a full day of brush scrubbing, stirring, and bubble scrubbing, my Cyano would come back within 30 minutes. So late last night I decided to move around my powerheads and add a couple more to the tank. This morning, due to much more flow hitting the sand and other areas where flow was lacking, the substrate is mostly clear of Cyano.
So first lesson here…. Give Cyano less chance to develop and grow by adding directed flow. I know this is basic knowledge, but it has pointed out to me that areas of my tank were lacking movement. Thanks Cyano; for pointing this out to me.

I will continue bubble scrubbing and stirring things up today. I will also be checking PO4 and NO3 levels. Two days ago these were 0.1ppm and 20 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just a follow up to my question about the phyto, I was thinking in terms of organic carbon the Cyano could use from some of the phyto that would undoubtedly die? Adding too much of the phyto seems counterintuitive to me when dealing with Cyano, but maybe I'm incorrect

Thank you for your help!

Yes, I expect it adds organics.

 

[Fish Fan]

Yes, I expect it adds organics.

Thank you, that's what I was thinking too, which is why I'm not sure that adding as much phyto as was originally suggested would be the best approach. Thanks again for your reply!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Adjusting phyto dosing or even stopping it is certainly a fine experiment in any given tank, with or without cyano.

I auto dose Phyto Feast Live at the low end of the manufacturer recommendation and have not changed it, but doing so would be easy.