Using live phytoplankton to beat ugly phase

tgrab

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I saw this thread in the Algae Barn section and it has me thinking about whether add live phytoplankton could be used to outcompete other nuisance algae when starting a new tank. Based on this response from Algae Barn, it sounds like phytoplankton have an easier time taking up nutrients in the water than other algae:
Hi @kinetic! Thank you for this information and for the photo. There is nothing, other than the pods, in your tank to consume the phyto so what is most likely happening here is that you have started your own phyto culture in the tank meaning it is reproducing faster than it can be consumed or removed. This is not a bad thing as it means you will have a ton of pods since they are now basically at an all you can eat buffet. Other than the poor aesthetics of the green water there is nothing to worry about here as far as the tank is concerned and it is easy to fix when you are ready. In fact I would personally rather have a phyto bloom in my new tank than a nuissance algae bloom as phytoplankton provides a better food source for the copepod population you are trying to establish at this time- which is the best time do to so before any/many predators are introduced. If the phyto were not there, something else like a nuisance algae would most likely be growing instead since they are both types of marine algae and both like/need environments containing nitrate, phosphate and light among other things. This is the equivalent of "the new tank uglies" but instead of the nuisance algae taking advantage of the nutrient rich new tank environment, the phyto is out-competing them for these nutrients- which is actually one of the main benefits of dosing live phytoplankton.

Our OceanMagik Live Phytoplankton blend is able to do this because it is free floating in the water column and able to reproduce very quickly. Therefore it has a much higher chance of coming into contact with the nitrate and phosphate molecules first compared to the other types of algae which are usually bound to the substrate and stationary. Kind of like if you and I were in a room trying to swat a fly and I was allowed to run around the room while you were forced to remain seated in a chair. My mobility greatly increases the likelihood of me getting the fly before you and the same concept applies here when talking about suspended vs substrate bound marine algae. In a way, what is happening to you here is a real world example of everything we claim about the benefits of our live phyto being true. In order for it to grow it must consume nitrate and phosphate from the water column, leaving less left over for the nuisance algae and reducing its growth by out-competing it for the limited nutrients available in your new ecosystem. Instead of the new tank uglies and lots of nuisance algae which is very common, you have a phyto bloom because live phytoplankton is a more fit competitor in this environment and it is able to effectively out-compete these competitors preventing/severely limiting them from being able to acquire the nutrients they need to reproduce rapidly and possibly take over in the tank. The fact that I do not see much or any nuisance algae in your tank provides the evidence needed to support what I am saying here. I have also cycled this same tank using our pods and phyto and experienced a very similar situation. Phytoplankton is also much easier to get rid of compared to substrate bound nuisance algae since it is suspended in the water column and can be removed via consumption, the skimmer, or a water change.

In comparison, a "dead" or preserved phyto product that is not alive can only decompose in the water column and can not reproduce or compete with other types of algae for the same nutrients. This means that all the extra "dead" phyto that wasn't immediately consumed would be decomposing in the water column until it was removed and is now potentially contributing to the nitrate and phosphate levels in the system- potentially aiding in more nuisance algae growth. This is why I prefer live phytoplankton over the more concentrated "dead" or preserved products.

To correct this situation, please turn off the lights for a few days and skim heavy until the water clears up. If the tank is in a well-lit room, you may need to cover the tank to block the light. Removing light from the equation will stop the phyto from reproducing in your tank, allowing for what is there now to be consumed or removed by the skimmer. You should also stop dosing during this time. This should clear up the water and solve the issue. A small water change of 5-10gal would not hurt either and would speed things up if you are in a rush.

Moving forward, I would suggest dosing less phyto, start with 1/2 what you were using, until you have some more phyto-consuming livestock in there to prevent another "phyto bloom" from turning your water green again. Once your tank is more established, you can increase the live phyto dose as needed and the water will not turn green because there are now more organisms to consume it before it can reproduce in your tank to the point of tinting the water green. Keep in mind that if you have light, phosphate, and nitrate present in the tank you have an ideal environment for algae growth. If you eliminate the live phyto as the primary consumer/ competitor for these nutrients, you will create an opportunity for nuisance algae to gain traction. This would lead to the more typical "new tank syndrome" that most of us are familiar with.

Hopefully this clears things up and provides a good explanation of what is going on biologically in your tank. Please let me know if you have any other questions, I am happy to help. Thanks!

Lan

Based on this it sounds like you could theoretically add live phytoplankton to a new tank, wait for it to bloom, then add pods or other things to eat the phyto and skip some or all issues with nuisance algae. I know some people set up a refugium or algae scrubber right away with a new tank for the same reason and this seems like a simpler alternative. I ordered a new tank and I am considering trying this out. Does anyone have experience doing this or anything like it?
 

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I saw this thread in the Algae Barn section and it has me thinking about whether add live phytoplankton could be used to outcompete other nuisance algae when starting a new tank. Based on this response from Algae Barn, it sounds like phytoplankton have an easier time taking up nutrients in the water than other algae:


Based on this it sounds like you could theoretically add live phytoplankton to a new tank, wait for it to bloom, then add pods or other things to eat the phyto and skip some or all issues with nuisance algae. I know some people set up a refugium or algae scrubber right away with a new tank for the same reason and this seems like a simpler alternative. I ordered a new tank and I am considering trying this out. Does anyone have experience doing this or anything like it?

Quantity of phyto needed for this approach is likely why most don't go this route. I was given rule of thumb daily 8oz phyto for 50 gallon tank... and I've got a 180gallon + 20 gallon sump

You are better off cycling with NO lights (plastic wrap and leaving lights off) if you really must

I do culture pods, but given sterility requirements of phyto, I don't bother as I'd be doomed before I start... sigh. But pods, I do the lazy banana leaf (peel) method (google it or in my build thread). Currently two tiny indoor tanks started with Reef Nutrition Tigger Pods and 1 tank started with AlgaeBarn EcoPods for the various strains (and if they are eating each other, can't tell... too small - but purpose is circle of life so consider it good). I just get my live phyto from @Eldredge here on R2R (linked him if every you need it. It's the BEST live phyto I've found (and I shop around... but I always go back). Its mixed species and DARK and HEALTHY and prices include shipping.

So, IF you are going your suggested route, you likely need to culture phyto yourself but otherwise I'm sharing my phyto guy @Eldredge
 
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tgrab

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Quantity of phyto needed for this approach is likely why most don't go this route. I was given rule of thumb daily 8oz phyto for 50 gallon tank... and I've got a 180gallon + 20 gallon sump

You are better off cycling with NO lights (plastic wrap and leaving lights off) if you really must

I do culture pods, but given sterility requirements of phyto, I don't bother as I'd be doomed before I start... sigh. But pods, I do the lazy banana leaf (peel) method (google it or in my build thread). Currently two tiny indoor tanks started with Reef Nutrition Tigger Pods and 1 tank started with AlgaeBarn EcoPods for the various strains (and if they are eating each other, can't tell... too small - but purpose is circle of life so consider it good). I just get my live phyto from @Eldredge here on R2R (linked him if every you need it. It's the BEST live phyto I've found (and I shop around... but I always go back). Its mixed species and DARK and HEALTHY and prices include shipping.

So, IF you are going your suggested route, you likely need to culture phyto yourself but otherwise I'm sharing my phyto guy @Eldredge
Can you elaborate on the sterility requirements? Wouldn’t the amount added reproduce by itself to fill the tank? I was thinking a single bottle of the live stuff from Algae Barn or somewhere else would be adequate.
 

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Can you elaborate on the sterility requirements? Wouldn’t the amount added reproduce by itself to fill the tank? I was thinking a single bottle of the live stuff from Algae Barn or somewhere else would be adequate.

I would not count on being able to essentially culture it in the aquarium i think much better route is just grow your own and you control how much you are adding daily.

I find phyto to be extremely easy to culture. A light, glass milk bottle/2liter bottle/etc, and an air pump, f2 fertilizer, and starter culture(s) is all that is needed and it pretty hard to screw it up.
 

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I saw this thread in the Algae Barn section and it has me thinking about whether add live phytoplankton could be used to outcompete other nuisance algae when starting a new tank. Based on this response from Algae Barn, it sounds like phytoplankton have an easier time taking up nutrients in the water than other algae:


Based on this it sounds like you could theoretically add live phytoplankton to a new tank, wait for it to bloom, then add pods or other things to eat the phyto and skip some or all issues with nuisance algae. I know some people set up a refugium or algae scrubber right away with a new tank for the same reason and this seems like a simpler alternative. I ordered a new tank and I am considering trying this out. Does anyone have experience doing this or anything like it?
This will work but missing one ingredient. Real live Rock from the Gulf + Phyto =Less Ugly
aquarium GIF
 
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tgrab

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I would not count on being able to essentially culture it in the aquarium i think much better route is just grow your own and you control how much you are adding daily.

I find phyto to be extremely easy to culture. A light, glass milk bottle/2liter bottle/etc, and an air pump, f2 fertilizer, and starter culture(s) is all that is needed and it pretty hard to screw it up.
My thought was basically doing a one-off culture in the tank to head off other forms of nuisance algae at the start rather than keeping a sustainable culture going in the tank.
 

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My thought was basically doing a one-off culture in the tank to head off other forms of nuisance algae at the start rather than keeping a sustainable culture going in the tank.
I dose to my newly started tanks. Definitely won’t hurt
 

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Won't do anything to stop the ugliest. Best to leave lights off first 4 months until you get some biodiversity and then add corals. That's what I did and ugly phase was manageable. I also added phytoplankton daily for pods.
 

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I just set up a Red Sea reefer xl 200 recently I culture phyto and pods ( tetra phyto ) (tisbe / tigriopus pods) I started this tank off with Marco dry rock pods and I dose phyto pretty close to daily and I have had very small diatom blooms but over all the tank has stayed very close to spotless. I’m probably just over a month into this build and not only has my system been spotless but I already have spots of purple coralline algae on each piece of Marco rock in this tank. This method has resulted in the best tank cycle I have seen yet. I do have to add in that I used prodbio bacteria and also aquaforest cycle bacteria to start things off. Lights have been on since the start of the tank and I’m using caribsea course sand.( Ecotech radion g5 blue ) I have seen noticeable differences with this tank cycle compared to the many tanks that I’ve cycled in the past. I’ve been keeping reef tanks for 14 years now and this one has really stood out big time to myself and also a lot of others who have seen this system throughout this cycle. Now it could very well be the types of bacteria used during the process that gave the major advantages I really can’t say for sure, but all I can say is the combination has created the smoothest cycle I have personally witnessed throughout my years in the hobby. The pod cultures have exploded as well the sump is completely full of pods. The crazy thing is when I placed my first order for corals that were going into this system the company sent me a free mandarin goby. I was pretty worried about this even tho I do culture my own phyto/ pods. I just felt kind of guilty taking that chance due to the fact that anytime I have ever added one of these into a system I made sure that the tank was mature and stable. This goby eats all day long and stays very active and happy and the pods still reproduce fast enough that the sump stays full of them. I do have multiple 3d printed hiding spots that I made for them to hang out in but still. I’m seriously impressed with the results so I’d have to disagree with some of the other posts because this has gone way better than any other cycle I have done in the past. Undeniably better outcomes have come out of this method
 
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tgrab

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I just set up a Red Sea reefer xl 200 recently I culture phyto and pods ( tetra phyto ) (tisbe / tigriopus pods) I started this tank off with Marco dry rock pods and I dose phyto pretty close to daily and I have had very small diatom blooms but over all the tank has stayed very close to spotless. I’m probably just over a month into this build and not only has my system been spotless but I already have spots of purple coralline algae on each piece of Marco rock in this tank. This method has resulted in the best tank cycle I have seen yet. I do have to add in that I used prodbio bacteria and also aquaforest cycle bacteria to start things off. Lights have been on since the start of the tank and I’m using caribsea course sand.( Ecotech radion g5 blue ) I have seen noticeable differences with this tank cycle compared to the many tanks that I’ve cycled in the past. I’ve been keeping reef tanks for 14 years now and this one has really stood out big time to myself and also a lot of others who have seen this system throughout this cycle. Now it could very well be the types of bacteria used during the process that gave the major advantages I really can’t say for sure, but all I can say is the combination has created the smoothest cycle I have personally witnessed throughout my years in the hobby. The pod cultures have exploded as well the sump is completely full of pods. The crazy thing is when I placed my first order for corals that were going into this system the company sent me a free mandarin goby. I was pretty worried about this even tho I do culture my own phyto/ pods. I just felt kind of guilty taking that chance due to the fact that anytime I have ever added one of these into a system I made sure that the tank was mature and stable. This goby eats all day long and stays very active and happy and the pods still reproduce fast enough that the sump stays full of them. I do have multiple 3d printed hiding spots that I made for them to hang out in but still. I’m seriously impressed with the results so I’d have to disagree with some of the other posts because this has gone way better than any other cycle I have done in the past. Undeniably better outcomes have come out of this method
I'm glad it worked out for you! I'm currently 9 days into my new tank and I'm using a version of this approach as well. I added a number of things from IPSF, I added ecopods this past Wednesday, and I've been adding about 30 ml of phyto each day in addition to running my refugium with ogo and ulva. So far no nuisance algae or noticeable amounts of other ugly things. I'm planning on adding some coral in the next week or so, so there is a chance I'll run into issues once other things are introduced.
 

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Poseidon reef systems makes an easy kit to grow phyto and pods. Super simple with the bags to keep everything sterile and not lose the culture. I'd dump more phyto down the drain than I could use in a month after I got the hang of it. Definitely helps the ugly to turn the corner starting off dry rock sterile.
 

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I saw this thread in the Algae Barn section and it has me thinking about whether add live phytoplankton could be used to outcompete other nuisance algae when starting a new tank. Based on this response from Algae Barn, it sounds like phytoplankton have an easier time taking up nutrients in the water than other algae:


Based on this it sounds like you could theoretically add live phytoplankton to a new tank, wait for it to bloom, then add pods or other things to eat the phyto and skip some or all issues with nuisance algae. I know some people set up a refugium or algae scrubber right away with a new tank for the same reason and this seems like a simpler alternative. I ordered a new tank and I am considering trying this out. Does anyone have experience doing this or anything like it?
I would take what they say with a grain of salt. I started my tank with about $400 worth of magic in a bottle including all the stuff from algaebarn that was supposed to make me skip the ugly stage. In actually I had almost every dreadful ugly phase issue you can imagine. Save your money and get yourself a nice established piece of live rock from a thriving reef.
 

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Phyto had made a noticeable difference in the algae I had in my 3 year old tank. Seemed to clear up cyano also. In my opinion there's a nice benefit to using it.
 

jtone_philthy_aquatics

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I'm glad it worked out for you! I'm currently 9 days into my new tank and I'm using a version of this approach as well. I added a number of things from IPSF, I added ecopods this past Wednesday, and I've been adding about 30 ml of phyto each day in addition to running my refugium with ogo and ulva. So far no nuisance algae or noticeable amounts of other ugly things. I'm planning on adding some coral in the next week or so, so there is a chance I'll run into issues once other things are introduced.
nice that's awesome to hear! hopefully when more is added things continue going well. I didn't experience any negative affects after adding the fish and coral. the fish load is pretty light in terms of waste and the corals I get are always from the same few vendors and they always come in super clean and covered in coralline algae so I'm sure that's the reason I'm seeing so much of that showing up on my rock work. keep me posted I'm interested in hearing how thing go once more gets added into your system. sounds like your off to a great start. on the bright side none of what you are doing can hurt the system so in my eyes its definitely worth it. its a great natural way to start things off. especially with real live rock being so limited these days. i feel these new methods can really benefit the the tanks since so much if it is sterile anymore. good luck dude!
 

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