Using tap water…..?

[GARRIGA]

One issue with tap in my area is apparently silicates which can be removed with PhosGuard or similar.

Something I’ve been playing to do is a whole home filtration system using sediment and charcoal with focus on removing silicates. If I get that accomplished then I might convert fully to using tap. Although when I first fill up my upcoming display I’ll have to find a way to remove excess calcium and magnesium since that’s high in my tap. As top off is a benefit.

Not all tap is created equal

 

[Uroplatus]

Running your tap water 5 minutes every time is probably as much water down the drain as I use making 80 gallons of RODI.

As for carrying water they make these wonderful things called hoses that can make the water go where ever you want without carrying it. Pumps can make it go up hill even.

Fair enough. What’s the best RODI unit in terms of the least waste water?

 

[WVNed]

Fair enough. What’s the best RODI unit in terms of the least waste water?

The ones with more than one membrane. A second membrane can be added to a standard system too.
I started with a BRS 4 stage and then added a water saver kit, second DI cannister and a second TDS meter.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/water-saver-upgrade-kit-bulk-reef-supply.html

I have Parkinson's disease and am getting an MRI Dec 31 of my lumbar region. No buckets for me for a while now except for 1-2 gallons to clean something and all I do with those is sit them in the floor from the sink. My only advantage is I knew it was coming and got ready. All water for my system leaves a sink and waste water goes back to it's drain including my automatic water changes and RODI system. I can also drain my tanks to this sink to empty them. I open one valve and it fills my ATO and RODI storage until float valves activate.
Don't underestimate what you can do with tubes and hoses.

 

[J1a]

If waste water is the main concern, another possible solution is to go for a DI system rather than a RO/DI.

yes, without the RO membrane doing the heavy lifting, the DI resin will exhaust faster. However, depending on how much water you need, it might just be viable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One issue with tap in my area is apparently silicates which can be removed with PhosGuard or similar.

Something I’ve been playing to do is a whole home filtration system using sediment and charcoal with focus on removing silicates. If I get that accomplished then I might convert fully to using tap.

May folks have elevated silicate as it is often added to prevent lead and copper release (corrosion) from pipes. My water company adds it.

Sediment and charcoal won't remove silicate, but GFO or aluminum oxide can. But the aluminum oxide may add aluminum.

If you do not have a diatom problem, though, the silicate is not a huge concern.

 

[GARRIGA]

May folks have elevated silicate as it is often added to prevent lead and copper release (corrosion) from pipes. My water company adds it.

Sediment and charcoal won't remove silicate, but GFO or aluminum oxide can. But the aluminum oxide may add aluminum.

If you do not have a diatom problem, though, the silicate is not a huge concern.

I use PhosGuard but get your point. Unfortunately, do have diatoms which was treated with PhosGuard and now retreating.

Ultrafiltration will remove one type of silicate but not reactive. Not sure what my water supply has but I know there’s a test for it. At that point using GFO might still be less expensive for those with good tap water otherwise. Just add an additional canister to the home filtration where it feeds the water container to store top off and new salt mix. Just an idea I’ve had related to stripping phosphates but applies to silicates as well.

 

[waterbox15aio]

Hello,

I have a question. Just how bad is tap water? I’ve been using it for almost a year and a half. I’ve been doing reefs myself off and on since 2009. I’m not being lazy or cheap, I have two reasons for not using RODI. First, I’m 25 and use a power chair so I can’t carry heavy jugs of water and second I feel really bad about the waste water. I’m looking for opinions or ideas. If there’s a RODI unit that produces very little waste water I’d be willing to purchase it. Thank you all for your time and consideration.

Couple comments:
- Tap water quality can cary drastically depending on where you live. I’ve used tapwater at some points when I had no RODI and the tank was generally ok with the exception of some diatoms. So while tap water may work for FOWLR, for reef it may keep your tank below its full potential. If you’re using tap water now and the tank is to your liking, i wouldn’t be too concerned.
- Storage Jugs and Plumbing: Consider hooking up an automated system to fill RODI, mix, and water change. You can find plenty of mixing station ideas online if you have the space and $.
- Most RODI are 4:1 waste though I think some options are as low as 2:1. RODI waste water can be used to water plants etc. probably even to drink.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I use PhosGuard but get your point. Unfortunately, do have diatoms which was treated with PhosGuard and now retreating.

Ultrafiltration will remove one type of silicate but not reactive. Not sure what my water supply has but I know there’s a test for it. At that point using GFO might still be less expensive for those with good tap water otherwise. Just add an additional canister to the home filtration where it feeds the water container to store top off and new salt mix. Just an idea I’ve had related to stripping phosphates but applies to silicates as well.

The issue with silicate and RO/DI is that the uncharged form (silicic acid) gets through an RO membrane to some extent, and silicate is among the most poorly held ions on a DI, so if something else comes along and displaces it, it can pop off and be released.

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

However, at the small end of the spectrum a number of compounds can pass through a reverse osmosis membrane to some extent and are, therefore, of concern to reef aquarists. These include carbon dioxide (CO2), ammonia (NH3), hydrogen sulfide (H2S, especially a concern with well water) and silicic acid (Si(OH)4, which is the uncharged and predominate form of silicate at pH values below 9.5). All of these should be trapped by a functioning DI resin (discussed below), but can still be a concern.

In the case of CO2, for example, there can be a lot of it in certain well waters, and DI resins may become rapidly depleted because the CO2 so readily passes through RO membranes (how to deal with this is discussed later in this article). As another example, ammonia that comes from chloramine in the water can be significant, and is one reason that RO/DI is greatly preferred to RO alone in those situations where chloramine is added to the tap water.

In the case of silicic acid, some types of RO membranes can be better than others at excluding it, even before it gets to the DI resins. For example, a thin-film polyamide membrane might let only 0.3% of the silicic acid pass, while a similar cellulose acetate membrane might let 12.7% of it pass.

then later...

In the DI descriptions above, I did not address the fact that some ions will show a greater preference for attachment to the resin than will others. When the resins are not depleted, it does not matter what the ions’ affinity is, as all are bound. But in a depleted scenario, when there are more ions than ion binding sites, those with a higher affinity for the resin will be retained, and those with a lower affinity will be released. It turns out that silicate is found at the lower end of affinity for anion resins. Consequently, if the DI resin has been collecting silicate for a long period and is then depleted, a large burst of silicate may be released.

 

[GARRIGA]

The issue with silicate and RO/DI is that the uncharged form (silicic acid) gets through an RO membrane to some extent, and silicate is among the most poorly held ions on a DI, so if something else comes along and displaces it, it can pop off and be released.

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

However, at the small end of the spectrum a number of compounds can pass through a reverse osmosis membrane to some extent and are, therefore, of concern to reef aquarists. These include carbon dioxide (CO2), ammonia (NH3), hydrogen sulfide (H2S, especially a concern with well water) and silicic acid (Si(OH)4, which is the uncharged and predominate form of silicate at pH values below 9.5). All of these should be trapped by a functioning DI resin (discussed below), but can still be a concern.

In the case of CO2, for example, there can be a lot of it in certain well waters, and DI resins may become rapidly depleted because the CO2 so readily passes through RO membranes (how to deal with this is discussed later in this article). As another example, ammonia that comes from chloramine in the water can be significant, and is one reason that RO/DI is greatly preferred to RO alone in those situations where chloramine is added to the tap water.

In the case of silicic acid, some types of RO membranes can be better than others at excluding it, even before it gets to the DI resins. For example, a thin-film polyamide membrane might let only 0.3% of the silicic acid pass, while a similar cellulose acetate membrane might let 12.7% of it pass.

then later...

In the DI descriptions above, I did not address the fact that some ions will show a greater preference for attachment to the resin than will others. When the resins are not depleted, it does not matter what the ions’ affinity is, as all are bound. But in a depleted scenario, when there are more ions than ion binding sites, those with a higher affinity for the resin will be retained, and those with a lower affinity will be released. It turns out that silicate is found at the lower end of affinity for anion resins. Consequently, if the DI resin has been collecting silicate for a long period and is then depleted, a large burst of silicate may be released.

As it pertains to tap water in my locality. High in chloramines which I handle with Prime/Safe. Not concerned with released ammonia because I’m running a large enough media bed to handle that. My nitrites and nitrates are low and same media bed has handled those. Phosphates are mostly low. It fluctuates but nothing that concerns me as that media bed has not only kept it in control but required me to add NeoPhos from ammonium chloride testing I’ve done to stress test my system.

CO2 is a concern. Still trying to work that out since I have no means of gassing it at the moment but getting ideas from what I’ve seen posted using scrubbers to off gas. Plus my test tank is situated in such a way that vigorous surface agitation sprays salt on my computer and monitor. This won’t be an issue with the future display for which I’m conducting these tests.

Not sure how concerned I should be about hydrogen sulfide. As you mentioned it’s possible in well water. Don’t think it’s in my tap. Didn’t see any last report I read of it.

Seems my biggest concern being silicates that I was hoping I could filter out. Based on what you mentioned it prompted me to do more research and I’m more knowledgeable now. Thank you. Although I could just use GFO to resolve. Something I might have to do regardless based on what you are saying as to RODI not completely eliminating it.

I’m researching the use of a distiller. No clue how viable for home use or just replacement water for aquariums.

Been using Walmart distilled bottled water because I don’t know how much I can trust my LFS to effectively filter the water.

Being south Florida. My tap is rich in calcium and magnesium. Would love to find a way to utilize it. In the end I may have no choice but to get an RODI and stay on top of the maintenance. Until then I continue my journey stress testing different theories and getting a conclusion to what best fits my needs. Not easy. Yet interesting. Learn something new almost daily. Just need to keep an open mind and challenge my own knowledge.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m researching the use of a distiller. No clue how viable for home use or just replacement water for aquariums.

Distillation is likely more expensive than RO/DI since it is energy intensive.

 

[GARRIGA]

Distillation is likely more expensive than RO/DI since it is energy intensive.

That’s part of what I’m trying to figure out as well as how large are the units. Probably get a whole home filter for the home and considering a small distiller for my aquarium.

Goal of testing is confirming I can complete the full nitrogen cycle. Eliminate water changes. Use dosing to replace that which is lost. All that’s left is top off. Granted I’m still in early stages of testing but has been something I’ve been seeking since the 80s. Went away from in the 90s. Back at it again. Still much to learn. Much to test. Good times I guess.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Goal of testing is confirming I can complete the full nitrogen cycle. Eliminate water changes. Use dosing to replace that which is lost. All that’s left is top off.

And possibly export of accumulating chemicals. That's why I like water changes. Some things are hard to deal with in other ways.

 

[GARRIGA]

And possibly export of accumulating chemicals. That's why I like water changes. Some things are hard to deal with in other ways.

What exact chemicals would that be that can’t be removed with GAC or other means? That is one of my concerns where I’m just not well versed and yet also struggle to see a remedy with the typical 10-15% most do. Seems that would be too slow to deal with constant build up. Although do see a possible concern for which I’m not sure how it exists