UV Sterilizer - DIY

[armyvetheather]

I am setting up an acrylic 450 gallon with dual overflows this weekend. Previously had a 220 gallon that started leaking and so we figured we might as well go big or go home. The question I have is whether or not it would be reasonable to put a uv light into each of the overflows, which are covered and you cannot see in them. Would like to optimize the uv lighting to where it's killing as much as possible. I will be cycling for quite awhile, so just in the planning process right now. Not only for space or economical reasons, but I feel like a uv light in each of the overflows would do double-duty. Looking for any holes in my thought process here. I don't necessarily mind spending the money for an encapsulated one, just feels as though you'd get more use for it if it has more exposure to the water itself, and more at once. TIA for any help or guidance.

 

[CasperOe]

** DELETED **

Sorry, I misread this post! Best of luck, will be interesting what you come up with! Following along..

 

[armyvetheather]

Any particular reason why you're looking at adding UV on the drains and not on the return? Anything I may have overlooked here?

By adding the UV in line with your return pump(s), you can ensure a steady f

 

[Fish Fan]

Interesting thought, I'm not so sure you can do that, but others may have a different opinion or experience doing this. My concerns would be that the UV light really needs to be fully enclosed to be safe. UV can cause damage to your eyes if you look directly at the light. And while I'm not an expert on UV usage, I do know that the flow rate that goes through the sterilizer is very important, and you use in fact two different flow rates depending on what you want your skimmer to do. I forget the specific rates, but you use one flow rate to control bacteria and algae and another to control fish parasites. So in your setup, the whole flow rate of your tank would be dictated by the needs of your UV, which I think would be less than ideal. I hope that made sense lol! Others I'm sure will explain it better. Good luck!

 

[piranhaman00]

How would you waterproof the bulb?

 

[Spare time]

The problem is you wouldn't be able to control the flow rate passing over the bulbs. What are you hoping to achieve with a UV?

 

[armyvetheather]

In my 90 cube I feel like my inline gets in the way and I was hoping to avoid that with this tank. Maybe just more of a preference, but trying to clean it or manipulate anything is a job with the setup I currently have. Just thinking of alt

 

[armyvetheather]

Alternative solutions*

 

[Fish Fan]

The problem is you wouldn't be able to control the flow rate passing over the bulbs. What are you hoping to achieve with a UV?

^This is what I wasted a whole paragraph trying to say lol!

 

[armyvetheather]

The problem is you wouldn't be able to control the flow rate passing over the bulbs. What are you hoping to achieve with a UV?

That's the other thing. How are you to make it slow and fast? That may sound silly, but my research says you need two rates of flow depending on what you're targeting. Could you not achieve both with two lights?

 

[threebuoys]

I agree that unshielded UV is a bad idea. If you have one return line from the sump, then one UV. If two return lines, then two UV. Install in the return line from the sump. Pretty simple installation if you have the room.

 

[threebuoys]

I think flow rate is not an issue...... See these threads

These two threads have lots of information to consider in asnwering your question.

Close Loop

Not sure if this is called closed loop or what, but I'm struggling with UV plumbing. Trying to avoid pumping sump water through UV and back to the sump, but properly go to DT. Need some feedback on the diagram below. Basically single pump to display. I have a 3 head manifold that I've...

www.reef2reef.com

Close Loop

Not sure if this is called closed loop or what, but I'm struggling with UV plumbing. Trying to avoid pumping sump water through UV and back to the sump, but properly go to DT. Need some feedback on the diagram below. Basically single pump to display. I have a 3 head manifold that I've...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[threebuoys]

've seen those videos and i've read quite a few reviews as I'm sure you have. I don't think the "science" is accurate. I would love to see some documentation that describe exactly how the tests that determined that different flow rates were proven. All I've seen has been based on open systems such as those in municipal or industrial water plants.

Below are comments I've posted elsewhere. I certainly don't have scientific proof for my theory either, but anecdotally, I've been very satisfied with my experience. Sorry to be long winded below, and in any case, UV sterlization is definitely beneficial


"My thoughts FWIW.....keep it simple and cheap, don't over engineer to fix what's probably inconsequential issues.

Plumb it directly in the return line to the tank. No need to buy a second pump or add additional plumbing.

Run UV full time, why wait until a problem occurs?

Run at whatever flow rate you desire for the return to tank, don't worry about altering the speed to accommodate the UV.

I have read the various opinions/recommendations about flow. Some say it depends on what problem you are trying to solve. For example, the reproduction rate of certain bacteria that causes cloudiness in the water column is to double every 20 minutes or less. In that case, the higher flow rate will more than keep up with the bacteria population explosion and aid in water clarity.

Some feel that a slower rate will be more effective in fighting parasites. Likewise, algae in the water column can be tackled by UV, and since it reproduces more slowly, why use a fast flow rate.

In either case, the UV alters the DNA of single cell life to prevent reproduction.

I view it a bit like exposure to the sun's UV rays. If every 5 minutes of sun I get is followed by 5 minutes of shade, I'm still gonna get sunburned if I'm exposed too long. Likewise for the bacteria. If I have a flow rate of say 5 to 10 times tank volume per hour, then the parasites I'm trying to target are still getting exposed to 6 to 12 minutes of UV every hour while the bacteria with the rapid reproduction rate are still getting exposure before they are able to double in population in 20 minutes.

I can turn off the power to the sterilizer if I get concerned that I'm using too much UV (to extend bulb life perhaps), but so far that's not a problem. I can also plug it into a receptacle/switch shared with the return pump to make sure it is turned off anytime no water flow.

A lot of room for different opinions based on individual experience. In any case, I recommend the use of a UV sterilizer and look for the cheapest you can buy. Again, they are really very simple and most of the products on the market, high or low priced, use the same replacement bulbs.

"If you are able to find documented flow rates, as opposed to suggested flow rates by vendors (of which I have seen many), I would also like to see it. All I've been able to find with reasonable documentation are flow rates in municipal water treatment plants. Of course that is a much different environment. Not only is the scale of operation in a much bigger universe, but a major difference is the water treatment plants are not closed systems as our aquariums are. Hence, my recommendation for rapid turnover. Water treatment plants keep each ounce of water in continuous exposure for a longer period of time which destroys all pests before the water is distributed to their customers. We on the other hand return the water into a closed system where it can be immediately reinfected by what is there. Some of the bad bacteria we fight to remove from the water column (often those repsonsible for bacteria blooms) have a documented reproductive doubling rate of less than 20 minutes. So, the best way to fight that is to have a cycle that flows 100 percent of the water in less than 20 minutes. Other pests, larger than 1 cell may require longer exposure which in a closed system is accomplished by repeated passes in the smaller UV devices we have available rather than one that might be multiple meters long. I wish I could offer a scientific study to validate what I'm saying, but I haven't found it yet. My logic may be flawed, but I believe the 5 - 10 water turnovers an hour in a closed system is the best way to match what happens in industrial water plants. And so far, I have been very pleased with my experience which as I've pointed out is anecdotal at best."

To support my theory another bit of information from

Germicidal UV Dose UV Irradiation Dosage Table​

Germicidal UV dose table shows the UV dose needed to inactivate germs
www.americanairandwater.com
quote:

"Please note that many variables (air flow, humidity, distance of microorganism to the UV light, irradiation time) take place in a real world environment that make actual calculating of the UV dosage very difficult. However, it is proven that UV light will kill any DNA-based microorganism given enough UV dosage. UV breaks down DNA on a cumulative basis. Therefore, as air circulates through the ductwork of an HVAC system containing an UV light, the UV light continuously disinfects the air. If a microorganism is not effectively deactivated on the first pass through the ductwork, the UV light will continue to break its DNA down on subsequent passes. Microorganisms do not sit in a static environment in HVAC systems except on coils which can be exposed to UV light also. Microorganisms multiply rapidly if not controlled. The UV light helps to reduce airborne microorganisms from the indoor environment."

 

[armyvetheather]

've seen those videos and i've read quite a few reviews as I'm sure you have. I don't think the "science" is accurate. I would love to see some documentation that describe exactly how the tests that determined that different flow rates were proven. All I've seen has been based on open systems such as those in municipal or industrial water plants.

Below are comments I've posted elsewhere. I certainly don't have scientific proof for my theory either, but anecdotally, I've been very satisfied with my experience. Sorry to be long winded below, and in any case, UV sterlization is definitely beneficial


"My thoughts FWIW.....keep it simple and cheap, don't over engineer to fix what's probably inconsequential issues.

Plumb it directly in the return line to the tank. No need to buy a second pump or add additional plumbing.

Run UV full time, why wait until a problem occurs?

Run at whatever flow rate you desire for the return to tank, don't worry about altering the speed to accommodate the UV.

I have read the various opinions/recommendations about flow. Some say it depends on what problem you are trying to solve. For example, the reproduction rate of certain bacteria that causes cloudiness in the water column is to double every 20 minutes or less. In that case, the higher flow rate will more than keep up with the bacteria population explosion and aid in water clarity.

Some feel that a slower rate will be more effective in fighting parasites. Likewise, algae in the water column can be tackled by UV, and since it reproduces more slowly, why use a fast flow rate.

In either case, the UV alters the DNA of single cell life to prevent reproduction.

I view it a bit like exposure to the sun's UV rays. If every 5 minutes of sun I get is followed by 5 minutes of shade, I'm still gonna get sunburned if I'm exposed too long. Likewise for the bacteria. If I have a flow rate of say 5 to 10 times tank volume per hour, then the parasites I'm trying to target are still getting exposed to 6 to 12 minutes of UV every hour while the bacteria with the rapid reproduction rate are still getting exposure before they are able to double in population in 20 minutes.

I can turn off the power to the sterilizer if I get concerned that I'm using too much UV (to extend bulb life perhaps), but so far that's not a problem. I can also plug it into a receptacle/switch shared with the return pump to make sure it is turned off anytime no water flow.

A lot of room for different opinions based on individual experience. In any case, I recommend the use of a UV sterilizer and look for the cheapest you can buy. Again, they are really very simple and most of the products on the market, high or low priced, use the same replacement bulbs.

"If you are able to find documented flow rates, as opposed to suggested flow rates by vendors (of which I have seen many), I would also like to see it. All I've been able to find with reasonable documentation are flow rates in municipal water treatment plants. Of course that is a much different environment. Not only is the scale of operation in a much bigger universe, but a major difference is the water treatment plants are not closed systems as our aquariums are. Hence, my recommendation for rapid turnover. Water treatment plants keep each ounce of water in continuous exposure for a longer period of time which destroys all pests before the water is distributed to their customers. We on the other hand return the water into a closed system where it can be immediately reinfected by what is there. Some of the bad bacteria we fight to remove from the water column (often those repsonsible for bacteria blooms) have a documented reproductive doubling rate of less than 20 minutes. So, the best way to fight that is to have a cycle that flows 100 percent of the water in less than 20 minutes. Other pests, larger than 1 cell may require longer exposure which in a closed system is accomplished by repeated passes in the smaller UV devices we have available rather than one that might be multiple meters long. I wish I could offer a scientific study to validate what I'm saying, but I haven't found it yet. My logic may be flawed, but I believe the 5 - 10 water turnovers an hour in a closed system is the best way to match what happens in industrial water plants. And so far, I have been very pleased with my experience which as I've pointed out is anecdotal at best."

To support my theory another bit of information from

Germicidal UV Dose UV Irradiation Dosage Table​

Germicidal UV dose table shows the UV dose needed to inactivate germs
www.americanairandwater.com
quote:

"Please note that many variables (air flow, humidity, distance of microorganism to the UV light, irradiation time) take place in a real world environment that make actual calculating of the UV dosage very difficult. However, it is proven that UV light will kill any DNA-based microorganism given enough UV dosage. UV breaks down DNA on a cumulative basis. Therefore, as air circulates through the ductwork of an HVAC system containing an UV light, the UV light continuously disinfects the air. If a microorganism is not effectively deactivated on the first pass through the ductwork, the UV light will continue to break its DNA down on subsequent passes. Microorganisms do not sit in a static environment in HVAC systems except on coils which can be exposed to UV light also. Microorganisms multiply rapidly if not controlled. The UV light helps to reduce airborne microorganisms from the indoor environment."

This is very thorough and I thank you for being long-winded as you stated. It was just a little confusing to me how you're supposed to get two flow rates with one sterilizer and some of these cost upwards of $700 (Pentair). I was looking for alternatives for space and of course to be thorough in what I'm trying to achieve. The tank isn't even setup yet, so obviously I'm not trying to target anything specific, but your theory of exposure really does make sense. Thanks again!!

 

[armyvetheather]

've seen those videos and i've read quite a few reviews as I'm sure you have. I don't think the "science" is accurate. I would love to see some documentation that describe exactly how the tests that determined that different flow rates were proven. All I've seen has been based on open systems such as those in municipal or industrial water plants.

Below are comments I've posted elsewhere. I certainly don't have scientific proof for my theory either, but anecdotally, I've been very satisfied with my experience. Sorry to be long winded below, and in any case, UV sterlization is definitely beneficial


"My thoughts FWIW.....keep it simple and cheap, don't over engineer to fix what's probably inconsequential issues.

Plumb it directly in the return line to the tank. No need to buy a second pump or add additional plumbing.

Run UV full time, why wait until a problem occurs?

Run at whatever flow rate you desire for the return to tank, don't worry about altering the speed to accommodate the UV.

I have read the various opinions/recommendations about flow. Some say it depends on what problem you are trying to solve. For example, the reproduction rate of certain bacteria that causes cloudiness in the water column is to double every 20 minutes or less. In that case, the higher flow rate will more than keep up with the bacteria population explosion and aid in water clarity.

Some feel that a slower rate will be more effective in fighting parasites. Likewise, algae in the water column can be tackled by UV, and since it reproduces more slowly, why use a fast flow rate.

In either case, the UV alters the DNA of single cell life to prevent reproduction.

I view it a bit like exposure to the sun's UV rays. If every 5 minutes of sun I get is followed by 5 minutes of shade, I'm still gonna get sunburned if I'm exposed too long. Likewise for the bacteria. If I have a flow rate of say 5 to 10 times tank volume per hour, then the parasites I'm trying to target are still getting exposed to 6 to 12 minutes of UV every hour while the bacteria with the rapid reproduction rate are still getting exposure before they are able to double in population in 20 minutes.

I can turn off the power to the sterilizer if I get concerned that I'm using too much UV (to extend bulb life perhaps), but so far that's not a problem. I can also plug it into a receptacle/switch shared with the return pump to make sure it is turned off anytime no water flow.

A lot of room for different opinions based on individual experience. In any case, I recommend the use of a UV sterilizer and look for the cheapest you can buy. Again, they are really very simple and most of the products on the market, high or low priced, use the same replacement bulbs.

"If you are able to find documented flow rates, as opposed to suggested flow rates by vendors (of which I have seen many), I would also like to see it. All I've been able to find with reasonable documentation are flow rates in municipal water treatment plants. Of course that is a much different environment. Not only is the scale of operation in a much bigger universe, but a major difference is the water treatment plants are not closed systems as our aquariums are. Hence, my recommendation for rapid turnover. Water treatment plants keep each ounce of water in continuous exposure for a longer period of time which destroys all pests before the water is distributed to their customers. We on the other hand return the water into a closed system where it can be immediately reinfected by what is there. Some of the bad bacteria we fight to remove from the water column (often those repsonsible for bacteria blooms) have a documented reproductive doubling rate of less than 20 minutes. So, the best way to fight that is to have a cycle that flows 100 percent of the water in less than 20 minutes. Other pests, larger than 1 cell may require longer exposure which in a closed system is accomplished by repeated passes in the smaller UV devices we have available rather than one that might be multiple meters long. I wish I could offer a scientific study to validate what I'm saying, but I haven't found it yet. My logic may be flawed, but I believe the 5 - 10 water turnovers an hour in a closed system is the best way to match what happens in industrial water plants. And so far, I have been very pleased with my experience which as I've pointed out is anecdotal at best."

To support my theory another bit of information from

Germicidal UV Dose UV Irradiation Dosage Table​

Germicidal UV dose table shows the UV dose needed to inactivate germs
www.americanairandwater.com
quote:

"Please note that many variables (air flow, humidity, distance of microorganism to the UV light, irradiation time) take place in a real world environment that make actual calculating of the UV dosage very difficult. However, it is proven that UV light will kill any DNA-based microorganism given enough UV dosage. UV breaks down DNA on a cumulative basis. Therefore, as air circulates through the ductwork of an HVAC system containing an UV light, the UV light continuously disinfects the air. If a microorganism is not effectively deactivated on the first pass through the ductwork, the UV light will continue to break its DNA down on subsequent passes. Microorganisms do not sit in a static environment in HVAC systems except on coils which can be exposed to UV light also. Microorganisms multiply rapidly if not controlled. The UV light helps to reduce airborne microorganisms from the indoor environment."

Since you seem to be pretty educated on these topics, like to pick your brain on another subject. I was very lucky and won the $250 reef breeder skimmer gift card they drew today. So lucky!!
Anyways, I am debating on running two sumps on this new tank. Obviously more equipment, but I've always been told that more filtration is a good thing and you can't have too much. I currently have an octo skimmer classic 150S that came with my 220 gallon that's leaking now that I would use on the new 450. Thought about using the gift card to purchase a rhythm 250 from reef breeders and running both? Just curious as to your thoughts or opinions.. TIA!!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ignoring regulating contact/exposure time, waterproofing the fixture and personal safety, the UV exposure will likely (almost certainly) damage the overflow box and plumbing.

Can you design around this? Sure, but why go through the trouble for no real benefit.

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

I am setting up an acrylic 450 gallon with dual overflows this weekend. Previously had a 220 gallon that started leaking and so we figured we might as well go big or go home. The question I have is whether or not it would be reasonable to put a uv light into each of the overflows, which are covered and you cannot see in them. Would like to optimize the uv lighting to where it's killing as much as possible. I will be cycling for quite awhile, so just in the planning process right now. Not only for space or economical reasons, but I feel like a uv light in each of the overflows would do double-duty. Looking for any holes in my thought process here. I don't necessarily mind spending the money for an encapsulated one, just feels as though you'd get more use for it if it has more exposure to the water itself, and more at once. TIA for any help or guidance.

Wont

I am setting up an acrylic 450 gallon with dual overflows this weekend. Previously had a 220 gallon that started leaking and so we figured we might as well go big or go home. The question I have is whether or not it would be reasonable to put a uv light into each of the overflows, which are covered and you cannot see in them. Would like to optimize the uv lighting to where it's killing as much as possible. I will be cycling for quite awhile, so just in the planning process right now. Not only for space or economical reasons, but I feel like a uv light in each of the overflows would do double-duty. Looking for any holes in my thought process here. I don't necessarily mind spending the money for an encapsulated one, just feels as though you'd get more use for it if it has more exposure to the water itself, and more at once. TIA for any help or guidance.

in an overflow not a good option. Effective uv sterilization requires longer “dwell time”. If you intend to turn the water 10-12 times per hour , you will need something like this >> https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...s=eto:6942274000287696074_0,cdl:1,prmr:1,cs:1

Running parallel at a slower rate.

 

[armyvetheather]

Ignoring regulating contact/exposure time, waterproofing the fixture and personal safety, the UV exposure will likely (almost certainly) damage the overflow box and plumbing.

Can you design around this? Sure, but why go through the trouble for no real benefit.

I understand what you're saying. I'll just do the traditional inline, but I may do it on both lines if I run dual sumps. Just tossing ideas around. Thanks for your input!!

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

One more thing. At the size of your build, research hot tub and pool options. You will save a boatload of money.

 

[Mikeltee]

UV will destroy that brand spanking new tank. Get yourself a Lifeguard QL-120. They are dirt cheap and bulbs are $40.