UV sterilizer - for Ich and algae. My experience

[ProvidenceTidalReef]

Bulk reef supply answers all of your questions.
Uv can and will kill ich.
It falls off the body then enters water column. That's where it can be killed.
I think its dumb that you would take fish, put them in another tank with copper. You do know that is the equlivant to you getting chemotherapy for cancer. It can kill you, it can kill your fish very easy copper is a last resort.

Life cycle. parasite burrows into fish then falls off fish, turns into invisible blob that reproduces inside, burst open and goes into water column, then attaches to your fish. If your fish is still weak enough due to low proteins in the mucus coat of the fish. Then the free swimmers will re attach themselves to the host fish and start the process all over again.

I have seen over 10 ppl with my own eyes beat ich with nothing but UV and feeding.
Is my suggested method as bulk reef supply has done all the research required to make it possible.

Man.... the amount of miss information on this site is just unreal.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bulk reef supply answers all of your questions.
Uv can and will kill ich.
It falls off the body then enters water column. That's where it can be killed.
I think its dumb that you would take fish, put them in another tank with copper. You do know that is the equlivant to you getting chemotherapy for cancer. It can kill you, it can kill your fish very easy copper is a last resort.

Life cycle. parasite burrows into fish then falls off fish, turns into invisible blob that reproduces inside, burst open and goes into water column, then attaches to your fish. If your fish is still weak enough due to low proteins in the mucus coat of the fish. Then the free swimmers will re attach themselves to the host fish and start the process all over again.

I have seen over 10 ppl with my own eyes beat ich with nothing but UV and feeding.
Is my suggested method as bulk reef supply has done all the research required to make it possible.

Man.... the amount of miss information on this site is just unreal.

actually, not the case but close. While UV's may help to kill some ich, they are not highly effective as are conventional treatments. Also, for live rock and reef tanks, micro organisms rely on the bacteria and algae suspended in the water column as a food source, therefore, UVs are not a good option for these type tanks. There is no guarantee that the entire ick parasite population in its free-swimming stage will pass through the UV. The most important consideration is that the ultraviolet light acts by damaging the DNA with in the parasite so it can not longer reproduce BUT these parasites have the ability to repair the damaged DNA.
It will help manage ich and cysts- Not eradicate it.

 

[schooncw]

Bulk reef supply answers all of your questions.
Uv can and will kill ich.
It falls off the body then enters water column. That's where it can be killed.
I think its dumb that you would take fish, put them in another tank with copper. You do know that is the equlivant to you getting chemotherapy for cancer. It can kill you, it can kill your fish very easy copper is a last resort.

Life cycle. parasite burrows into fish then falls off fish, turns into invisible blob that reproduces inside, burst open and goes into water column, then attaches to your fish. If your fish is still weak enough due to low proteins in the mucus coat of the fish. Then the free swimmers will re attach themselves to the host fish and start the process all over again.

I have seen over 10 ppl with my own eyes beat ich with nothing but UV and feeding.
Is my suggested method as bulk reef supply has done all the research required to make it possible.

Man.... the amount of miss information on this site is just unreal.

Seems to me, you just perpetrated some of the "miss information", with your anecdotal information.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Seems to me, you just perpetrated some of the "miss information", with your anecdotal information.

Been doing this 34 years and running UV since 1996
You show us data that substantiates a sterilizer kills ich. If that were the case, there would not be medication/qt/hypo, etc
I know persons right now that have UV with new bulbs and have ich.
Keep believing what you read. Read 6 books and you’ll have at least 4 different perceptions.

 

[schooncw]

Been doing this 34 years and running UV since 1996
You show us data that substantiates a sterilizer kills ich. If that were the case, there would not be medication/qt/hypo, etc
I know persons right now that have UV with new bulbs and have ich.
Keep believing what you read. Read 6 books and you’ll have at least 4 different perceptions.

"I have seen over 10 ppl with my own eyes beat ich with nothing but UV and feeding." I don't think this is the greatest advice! But in your original post, you said "Uv can and will kill ich" and just said "You show us data that substantiates a sterilizer kills ich. If that were the case, there would not be medication/qt/hypo, I know persons right now that have UV with new bulbs and have ich.". Which statement is correct?

 

[vetteguy53081]

youre opinion. I have helped hundreds of people get out of various issues . While diet DOES play an important role, it is not the total antidote but I refuse to go back and forth with you.

 

[rsumner]

Sorry to resurrect a slightly dormant thread, but the answer to this topic should be pretty simple. What UV exposure rate (which is a measured value by every UV manufacturer) has been tested to kill Ich and/or other protozoa? Some of my research has shown 92,000 µw/cm2 and others say anything over 70,000 µw/cm2. Some manufacturers say use 180,000 µw/cm2 and others say use 90,000 µw/cm2. Has anyone found a really good chart showing UV exposure rates for killing well known marine protozoa? A lot of the charts I've seen are for drinking water.

Comments like "you need really slow flow through the UV" or "you need to grossly oversize the UV" lack the detail required to size a UV for this type of use-case. It should be simple: recommended turn over rate and recommended UVC exposure rate. Once you have those two numbers, it's simple math.

While I understand UV won't kill all Ich because not all specimens are free floating, but it shouldn't be too difficult to share what UV exposure rate does kill the floaters.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry to resurrect a slightly dormant thread, but the answer to this topic should be pretty simple. What UV exposure rate (which is a measured value by every UV manufacturer) has been tested to kill Ich and/or other protozoa? Some of my research has shown 92,000 µw/cm2 and others say anything over 70,000 µw/cm2. Some manufacturers say use 180,000 µw/cm2 and others say use 90,000 µw/cm2. Has anyone found a really good chart showing UV exposure rates for killing well known marine protozoa? A lot of the charts I've seen are for drinking water.

Comments like "you need really slow flow through the UV" or "you need to grossly oversize the UV" lack the detail required to size a UV for this type of use-case. It should be simple: recommended turn over rate and recommended UVC exposure rate. Once you have those two numbers, it's simple math.

While I understand UV won't kill all Ich because not all specimens are free floating, but it shouldn't be too difficult to share what UV exposure rate does kill the floaters.

The slower organisms pass through, the more effective radiation will be on them
It will not kill existing ich, however get to future cysts and reduce their life cycle

 

[rsumner]

The slower organisms pass through, the more effective radiation will be on them
It will not kill existing ich, however get to future cysts and reduce their life cycle

My point is that the exposure rate is something that can be measured in µw/cm2 and is published by most UV manufacturers. So, instead of saying: "make sure your flow is really slow", why don't we share the scientifically studied figures that align with those measurements so an affective application can be designed?

 

[Stigigemla]

UVC can and will kill parasites. But only the parasites that goes through the filter.
There are some considerations to make. If You have a lot of stones and corals in the tank You need more flow to get the parasites away from the fishes in their sleeping spots.
I have a turnover of 2 times an hour in my quarantine with no sand or stones and it wipes out Ich and most other skin parasites. Not Uronema or flukes.

At customers with stones and corals I recommend at least the double for visible infections. And they can refer that the parasites came from another shop. I have customers thats buying fish from me in more than 10 years and I dont believe anuone of them has had a visible infection.

About the effectivness of filters. For me it is clear that the double flow with 60% kill will be more effective than a low flow with 100% kill.

In my 420 gallon tank I have no UV. 2 years ago I got an Acanthurus japonicus with a little Ich from a customer.
I placed in the tank and for a year it had up to 10 ich spots coming and leaving. It didnt affect any other fish and now it is about a year since I saw ther last spot. I You avoid cupper the fishes get a much better immune defence just as Paul B preaches.

 

[rsumner]

UVC can and will kill parasites. But only the parasites that goes through the filter.
There are some considerations to make. If You have a lot of stones and corals in the tank You need more flow to get the parasites away from the fishes in their sleeping spots.
I have a turnover of 2 times an hour in my quarantine with no sand or stones and it wipes out Ich and most other skin parasites. Not Uronema or flukes.

At customers with stones and corals I recommend at least the double for visible infections. And they can refer that the parasites came from another shop. I have customers thats buying fish from me in more than 10 years and I dont believe anuone of them has had a visible infection.

Okay, so that's one of the numbers: turn over rate. Based upon your response, you have found that a turn over rate of 4 per hour to be most effective. But, what exposure rate measured in µw/cm2 do you design to? 90K µw/cm2, 180K µw/cm2, or some other number? That's the basis of my question and the confusion that I have as someone who's fairly scientific and data driven.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Issue is, many reefers prefer to keep it simple and will not do it scientifically

 

[Stigigemla]

The illumination time is also important. Otherwise the flow wouldnt matter.
With the Deltec UVC You can have about 2000 liters per hour for the 38w model and that is what I recommend.
I have been using them for 15 years now with good result.
I dont think different brands matter much. Just count about 50 l/h flow per watt and it will work.
Maybe a little less for an unknown brand or those with folded UVC tubes.

 

[rocket098]

I have a 110 watt uv light running 300 gallons an hour through it. I can tell you from my experience that the UV along with an increase in temperature around 80 will substantially reduce ich until its no longer noticeable. I haven’t seen it for a long time. I also believe that the ich will breed itself out over time unless a new strain is introduced. I don’t want to argue over quarantine procedures but for me it’s not an option as I travel too much. There are many methods to success find the one that works for you.

 

[rsumner]

Here is a PDF from the old Emporor Aquatics UV catalog showing recommended UV dosing charts. It says Cryptocaryon irritans (marine Ich) should be treated with a single pass of 280,000 µw/cm2 UV. I believe they get these calculations from this article that's actually talking about the combination of UV and Ozone doses combined that lost their ability to infect silverfish. This article abstract states:

The minimum in vitro lethal doses of UV and ozone against theronts were 2.88× 105 μWs/cm2 and 0.15 mg/L, respectively. In vivo, UV and ozone-treated theronts lost their ability to infect pompano (Trachinotus ovatus) when exposed to doses above 1.84 × 105 μWs/cm2 and 0.10 mg/L, respectively.

So, that article claims you could use 180,000 µw/cm2 of UV exposure assuming you also combined it with 0.10 mg/L of Ozone. Very interesting. I do believe, however, that most of the research on marine ich is extrapolated from Hoffman 1974's research on UV exposure to freshwater ich which is why I believe that most people just say "make the UV really big and make sure the flow is really slow" without any real true scientific research that provides proven values to go along with it.

Me? I'm going to shoot for 180,000 µw/cm2 exposure with a turn over of 3.5x an hour. I'll move my vendor selections on this topic to my new build thread.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I’m running 57w Aqua on 150g .

I never have ich issues . Sometimes a few dots on the tangs but they don’t get out of hand . +1 for Ich management for me.

 

[LiamPM]

My point is that the exposure rate is something that can be measured in µw/cm2 and is published by most UV manufacturers. So, instead of saying: "make sure your flow is really slow", why don't we share the scientifically studied figures that align with those measurements so an affective application can be designed?

Like you say, it does tickle me too how most just say "slow flow" without actually being able to give a specific ratio of "slow" in terms of UV. Always gets me that one.

How slow is slow - "Just slow" - Yeah but HOW slow - "I said slow!"

Anyway, this might be another useful read too with the brief mention of flow rates from teh university of Florida.

FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

"Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater "ich"). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 µWsec/cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required for Cryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 µWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 µWsec/cm2 (Colorni and Burgess 1997).

Theronts must go through the UV sterilization unit in order to be exposed, so any theronts that are not exposed to UV radiation and remain in the tank or holding areas will be unaffected. Similarly, encysted tomonts within the tank or holding area will not be affected."

 

[Neptune 555]

Advice and experience please?

I have a 180 reef that has some 50 pounds of LR that is 20+ years old. I started with a 48 gallon FOWLR and have kept the rock aka biodiversity.

I follow both Paul B and humble fish. For the past 10 years I employed a mix of both. Every fish has TTM but no meds. I feed live black worms, clams, LRS reef frenzy and some pellets along with nori.

I added a mandarin, 2 purpe firefish and a sasha goby with only QT/refugium for a month no TTM. Now my blue tang, yellow tang and both pygmy angels have ich.

I am debating purchasing a UV sterilizer tonight to help BUT woudn't a UV sterilizer kill the BBS and copods I am harvesting for my tank?

Neptune... losing my mind as my fish have been w/ me since 2015.

thanks Neptune

 

[vetteguy53081]

Advice and experience please?

I have a 180 reef that has some 50 pounds of LR that is 20+ years old. I started with a 48 gallon FOWLR and have kept the rock aka biodiversity.

I follow both Paul B and humble fish. For the past 10 years I employed a mix of both. Every fish has TTM but no meds. I feed live black worms, clams, LRS reef frenzy and some pellets along with nori.

I added a mandarin, 2 purpe firefish and a sasha goby with only QT/refugium for a month no TTM. Now my blue tang, yellow tang and both pygmy angels have ich.

I am debating purchasing a UV sterilizer tonight to help BUT woudn't a UV sterilizer kill the BBS and copods I am harvesting for my tank?

Neptune... losing my mind as my fish have been w/ me since 2015.

thanks Neptune

UV unit will address what passes through the sleeve exposed to bulb. Its a misconception that it radiated the tank- It does not. Example is algae- Any algae on the rock PRE-EXISTING will remain however any spores that pass through it will die off which is how reduction is accomplished

 

[Neptune 555]

UV unit will address what passes through the sleeve exposed to bulb. Its a misconception that it radiated the tank- It does not. Example is algae- Any algae on the rock PRE-EXISTING will remain however any spores that pass through it will die off which is how reduction is accomplished

will the UV kill the copods and BBS in the tank? Won't they pass through also?