UV sterilizers are not effective and we should all stop using them, Right?

[Sashaka]

Has it become obvious enough that peer reviewed works don’t have a place in reefing. Perhaps as a window to reefing in the 90s but zero things today in reefing wait for peer review validation.

It’s dinosaur gate keeping. We don’t wait for validation from peer reviews, I cannot locate one peer reviewer who said pico reefs would work, that allelopathy wouldn’t prevent them from working, yet half a million pico reefs are currently working because we started them with nobody’s permission. Found a rule, broke it, peers can catch up when they’re ready to accept.

Anyone who runs work threads where actual tank cures are worked live time knows UV is a core tool, staying out of work threads as a manager and only shopping google scholar is an insulator to having accountability. Zoos and large scale exhibits use uv in nearly every case, so uv naysayers I must deduce:

-Have no work threads and haven’t been reading any

-have never had a back tour at an aquarium or zoo asking people with much on the line what their best preventatives are

As a work thread diver, I’ll state that if someone is going to buy a tank large enough that you can’t effect a 100% water change on demand, you better uv that rascal and btw use a pond sterilizer quit matching uv to your gallonage, go beyond it.

Uv isn’t required, it’s just a lifesaving insurance machine for large tankers

@brandon429, are pond sterilizers built well enough to stand up to saltwater? I read earlier in this thread that the cheaper UVs don't hold up as well and eventually break down plastics into the tank. Any "anecdotal" thoughts to share about that I can take to heart? I really am interested in your answer BTW, as I am saving pennies currently to purchase a UV for my 180 gal. tank. Brand recommendations I can look into?

 

[brandon429]

Really well said

I can only rate long term function off the amazon reviews, the $150 dollar ones off amazon for 1500 gallon koi pond setups we’ve used on 30 gallon nano reefs to absolutely burn dinos out of existence (along with rip cleans to keep the invasion mass low as well) and I never got a single follow up post about malfunctions.

Nano reefers don’t really keep their stuff for 20 years by and large they tend to upgrade and change stuff possibly before fail dates on cheap uv that may be affecting feedback

but regarding uv in general, I’d never ever be without it for large setups. If I could afford the $900 one at the time I’d choose it, but vs no UV get the amazon stand in for sure. Heck most of the amazon commenters are using them outside in extreme heat and cold, we can find years of evaluation patterns for reliability in their ratings

 

[Sashaka]

Really well said

I can only rate long term function off the amazon reviews, the $150 dollar ones off amazon for 1500 gallon koi pond setups we’ve used on 30 gallon nano reefs to absolutely burn dinos out of existence (along with rip cleans to keep the invasion mass low as well) and I never got a single follow up post about malfunctions.

Nano reefers don’t really keep their stuff for 20 years by and large they tend to upgrade and change stuff possibly before fail dates on cheap uv that may be affecting feedback

but regarding uv in general, I’d never ever be without it for large setups. If I could afford the $900 one at the time I’d choose it, but vs no UV get the amazon stand in for sure. Heck most of the amazon commenters are using them outside in extreme heat and cold, we can find years of evaluation patterns for reliability in their ratings

Thank you. I'll look into them! Do you have or know of a thread talking about them I can follow?

 

[brandon429]

many good ones come up under google searches for ‘uv and dinos’ or ‘uv and dinoflagellates / uv and cyano’ and also each forum’s dino works threads show UV claimed as a top contender no matter which forum we review, any lengthy dinos thread has uv supporters just thankful something gave them an edge

It’s all piecemeal data but such strong in feedback uv has a permanent place in our hobby. I like these threads for UV nuggets:

I have almost completely eradicated dinoflagellates overnight.

I posted this in the other dino thread, but wanted to get this info out to more people. My Dino's came back after I started doing water changes again (20% weekly). This was about a month ago. I took a relatively hands off approach by just dosing some phosphates to keep them around 0.1ppm and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[NanoDJS]

Am I going to be the first one to say it ........ Our lights throw more UV than any sterilizer for the whole photo-period. Somebody splain that to me , come on lets pier review that , debunk me. If you had a pond , diff story ... thats what they made these for anyhow.

 

[Fourstars]

If you are reading this, STOP now before paging back. You will never get that 10 minutes of your life back.

 

[brandon429]

Problematic Algae And How To Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

I have now been keeping reef tanks for over 30 years and over that time I have seen fads and techniques come and go and I have been asked questions about just about every aspect of the hobby.

reefbuilders.com

I got totally lucky on that random search.

Jake

we love pond sterilizers here too ha that’s funny timing yes sir.

word gets around because people keep liking the outcome of cheapie sterilizers

if some have broken down due to quality it’s not really a pattern, and if I had spare cash I’d get quality brand oversized ones not entry ones. But for tinkering, the cheapies are likely to win, we show in peer reviewed pattern. Combine uv with disassembly / total takedown cleaning for a likely win.


in google scholar I can’t locate data to earn aquarium cures for these invasions shown above, if it weren’t for web forums nobody would know about fluconazole / saved one million bryopsis aquariums from total loss...so many examples are avail where formal acceptance is just too darn slow to meet demand.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Thank you. I'll look into them! Do you have or know of a thread talking about them I can follow?

Make sure the one you chose is described as a sterilizer not a clarifier. It doest take a lot of watts to make a 2000 gallon pond not be green, Probably like 15w. But for other more colonial algae species that will only have the same effect for a much smaller body of water. I use a 55w in surface skimmer unit to provide relief from floating filament fw algae. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[brandon429]

Hey that is neat info really good point, we are wanting to overdo it for sure don’t buy any weaker variants

So many people have concerns about planktors burned in uv use but it’s handy to view another section of the hobby to see if complete water exchange is harming coral systems (the only thing more insulting than light burning to plankton in the water column is totally removing all of them at once)

Nearly every pico reef is doing 90-100% removal of all planktors with each water change, and things are getting better not worse for pico reefing.

These corals, though Maritza has locked them in a fishbowl for just shy of a decade lol are not mad, they’re gemming out and producing copious frags. Their water is ripped, gone, to burn it with uv would be nicer and leave more plankton in the water...don’t let burning of plankton stop one from considering uv because of what fishbowl reefs show. Being tough on the water column is good where available

Every niche of reefing has cross-implications to others in interesting ways, pico reefs validate UV sterilization though theyre too small to ever use them. Pico reefs are harshest on the water column of any niche in reefing.

 

[CuzzA]

@brandon429, are pond sterilizers built well enough to stand up to saltwater? I read earlier in this thread that the cheaper UVs don't hold up as well and eventually break down plastics into the tank. Any "anecdotal" thoughts to share about that I can take to heart? I really am interested in your answer BTW, as I am saving pennies currently to purchase a UV for my 180 gal. tank. Brand recommendations I can look into?

I would not buy a no name brand off Amazon. These units are notorious for using plastics that are not UV resistant and will break down the polymers in no time.

I would stick to the name brands of Pentair and Aqua UV. Coralife produces the Turbo Twist line which is not going to be as effective as the aforementioned brands, but at least uses a mirrored finish in the housing.

In all of my UV research over the years Emperor Aquatics was at the top of my list, Pentair bought Emperor Aquatics in 2013. The problem with good quality UV sterilizers is they are big, which is necessary for proper dwell time. You also have to install them correctly to ensure no air gets trapped in the system. This also complicates installations when space is limited.

Finally, you have to have some forethought on how to measure the flow rate. Whether a bucket and stop watch or something more sophisticated like a Neptune flow meter module.

 

[brandon429]

Nice call

People will end up investing ten grand + in a typical 200 gallon system it's a fractional cost to invest in the recommended quality sterilizers since they protect display animals/ where all your time and focus is about to go

It's building a bio machine with no weak points to use the right gear as a permanent design inclusion. I would not ever own a large tank investment without UV, it's driving without insurance. I'll be amazed if any aquatic zoo exhibits with dense fish loading are not using UV. Surely some exhibits nowadays are experimenting in refugium setups or specialized designs away from UV machinery

but the staple for over forty years is to use UV in large public displays and those professionals using them are the right peers to evaluate UV, people responsible for ensuring balanced systems for the public. Their gear was always top notch

 

[ihavecrabs]

There is no objective evidence that demonstrates that UV sterilizers do what you have stated.

Does that matter? Anecdotal evidence that is repeatable in this hobby is the reason we have gotten as far as we have, not scientific peer reviewed papers.

I’ll add my name to the list of many others on this thread that also beat back Dino’s with including UV in my efforts. All the proof I need!

 

[Sashaka]

Make sure the one you chose is described as a sterilizer not a clarifier. It doest take a lot of watts to make a 2000 gallon pond not be green, Probably like 15w. But for other more colonial algae species that will only have the same effect for a much smaller body of water. I use a 55w in surface skimmer unit to provide relief from floating filament fw algae. Just something to keep in mind.

Thank you. I will make sure the one I purchase is marketed "sterilizer" as you recommend. I don't know yet if I will be purchasing a Pentar or a pond sterilizer. I am still saving my pennies, but the feedback is giving me options to research while I save.

 

[Scorpius]

Glad I skipped most of this thread.

 

[Joe Rice]

And I might need to leave this here too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

Repeatedly posting about cognitive bias is not moving the discussion along, it's just a way of insulting people.

Curious if you use a protein skimmer on your tank? As far as I know there are no peer-reviewed scientific studies demonstrating that protein skimmers are "useful" on a closed aquarium system.

 

[LegendaryCG]

I disagree with the premise. UV destroys Human skin cells, it shouldn’t be a surprise that simple organisms are damaged by it.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Am I going to be the first one to say it ........ Our lights throw more UV than any sterilizer for the whole photo-period. Somebody splain that to me , come on lets pier review that , debunk me. If you had a pond , diff story ... thats what they made these for anyhow.

Um, wrong wavelength of UV thankfully. Because if our lights gave off low enough wavelengths of UV (what the sterilizers use), then we would have issues with skin cancer and blindness just being near our tanks. The blue light given off by our lights is not great for our eyesight, but not capable of blinding you with short doses. No, don't stare at your lights! ;Blackeye

Dennis

 

[Daniel76]

Repeatedly posting about cognitive bias is not moving the discussion along, it's just a way of insulting people.

Curious if you use a protein skimmer on your tank? As far as I know there are no peer-reviewed scientific studies demonstrating that protein skimmers are "useful" on a closed aquarium system.

The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance - Reefs.com

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. Protein skimmers have become indispensable for many aquarists who strive to maintain the high water quality necessary to keep stony corals.

www.advancedaquarist.com

Further Studies on Protein Skimmer Performance - Reefs.com

Further Studies on Protein Skimmer Performance - Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. Many factors contribute to the 'value' of a skimmer to an aquarist, including quality of construction, size, footprint, noise level, ease of cleaning, energy...

www.advancedaquarist.com

Foam Fractionation | Practical Surfactants Science | Prof Steven Abbott

Foam Fractionation modelled in Prof Steven Abbott's Practical Surfactants science and apps

www.stevenabbott.co.uk

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php#19

Protein Removal by a Foam Fractionator in Simulated Seawater Aquaculture System | Request PDF

Request PDF | Protein Removal by a Foam Fractionator in Simulated Seawater Aquaculture System | Effects of different operating factors including superficial air velocity (SAV), hydraulic residence time (HRT), protein concentration, and foam... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

Performance of a Lab-Scale Closed Seawater Recirculating System for Korean Rockfish Sebastes schlegeli Culture | Request PDF

Request PDF | Performance of a Lab-Scale Closed Seawater Recirculating System for Korean Rockfish Sebastes schlegeli Culture | Performance of a laboratory scale closed seawater recirculating aquaculture system was evaluated. Twenty-kg of Korean rockfish (130 fish) with an... | Find, read and...

www.researchgate.net

 

[Pdash]

But can / should we assume that it defeated them and not something else?

Yes

 

[deahttub]

from American Aquarium Products

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html#forward

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html


This post from SP explains all. I have been using uv’s for years and they work. I suspect that people dont have the same success that i do is they arent using a properly sized uv. I have a 57 watt and i run approximately 400 gph through it. Flow rate/properly sized unit are the keys to sucess...