Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

[PDR]

It’s a huge issue for them and why pretty much every fish I’ve ever gotten has had ich or velvet. Some fight off ich. Velvet has taken over because of what you describe.

In truth, most LFS keep fish in low levels of copper to keep it from taking over until it goes to its new home (keeps it contained from taking over). Add to that the short amount of time most fish remain in inventory and you have your answer.

I guess that makes sense, especially for ich, but the way velvet is described you would think it would just wipe everything out in a couple of days without serious intervention.

 

[4FordFamily]

I guess that makes sense, especially for ich, but the way velvet is described you would think it would just wipe everything out in a couple of days without serious intervention.

It can. Some fish can fight off velvet specially those survivors that stay at LFS for extended periods — they become quite resistant to it. Wrasse, some gobies, on rare occasion an odd tang or angel. Unfortunately though they can be Typhoid Marys at their next home, however. It’s easier to build a resistance when the parasite is medicated enough to keep it from taking over. The repeated exposure for a long period of time can make for some resistant fish.

Acanthurus tangs for example cannot fight it off and will succumb pretty much no matter what.

 

[Humblefish]

I guess that makes sense, especially for ich, but the way velvet is described you would think it would just wipe everything out in a couple of days without serious intervention.

Fish can develop temporary or even permanent immunity to velvet. It is just a lot more uncommon than immunity to ich. Also, as previously mentioned, everyone from collectors to wholesalers to most LFS employ some sort of parasite management technique. Running a UV, subtherapeutic copper, herbal remedies, etc.

 

[svogun]

@Humblefish when treating velvet it is ok to add the anitbiotics with the copper treatment?

 

[HotRocks]

@Humblefish when treating velvet it is ok to add the anitbiotics with the copper treatment?

What ABX are you wanting to mix with copper?

 

[svogun]

What ABX are you wanting to mix with copper?

I've got a powder brown tang in QT that is showing signs of velvet. I'm ramping up copper power now. Reading through this thread @Humblefish recommended furan-2 or kanaplex. Is this to be completed in conjunction with copper or after the copper treatment?

 

[HotRocks]

I've got a powder brown tang in QT that is showing signs of velvet. I'm ramping up copper power now. Reading through this thread @Humblefish recommended furan-2 or kanaplex. Is this to be completed in conjunction with copper or after the copper treatment?

I think he will tell you the following:

You can use ABX in combination with copper, but only as a last resort (I personally avoid mixing anything with copper if possible). Definite risk for bacterial bloom when mixing things with copper, also really hard on the immune system of the fish. This is also while it's critical to supplement food with vitamins etc. The more things combined in QT deplete oxygen as well so keep that in mind.

Is your fish showing signs of bacterial infection currently? Or are you trying to be proactive? Secondary infections are possible with the amount of entry wounds from velvet, but do not always occur.

Your best bet is to give the fish an antiseptic bath with acriflavine (Ruby Reef Rally) to help prevent infection from a proactive standpoint.

 

[svogun]

I think he will tell you the following:

You can use ABX in combination with copper, but only as a last resort (I personally avoid mixing anything with copper if possible). Definite risk for bacterial bloom when mixing things with copper, also really hard on the immune system of the fish. This is also while it's critical to supplement food with vitamins etc. The more things combined in QT deplete oxygen as well so keep that in mind.

Is your fish showing signs of bacterial infection currently? Or are you trying to be proactive? Secondary infections are possible with the amount of entry wounds from velvet, but do not always occur.

Your best bet is to give the fish an antiseptic bath with acriflavine (Ruby Reef Rally) to help prevent infection from a proactive standpoint.

Was just trying to be proactive. No signs of bacterial infection. Fish is swimming in front of powerhead, pail. Some spots. I'm taking 48 hrs to ramp up the copper power now.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Agree with @HotRocks.

Don’t use antibiotics unless signs of an infection are apparent. ABX are particular harsh on certain fish and deplete oxygen. When combined with other meds (like copper) it just exacerbates the side effects. Sometimes you have no other choice, but combining meds should always be a measure of last resort: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/the-bacterial-infection-predicament.315/

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree no antibiotics without reason, but especially in copper

 

[the1320god]

So I cant get my cleaner wrasse out of my DT. He's the only one left in there. I got marine velvet and lost most of my fish( saved my purple tang and sailfin tang with information I read on here). Wrasse shows no sign of the parasite. Can they not get it?

 

[Brew12]

So I cant get my cleaner wrasse out of my DT. He's the only one left in there. I got marine velvet and lost most of my fish( saved my purple tang and sailfin tang with information I read on here). Wrasse shows no sign of the parasite. Can they not get it?

Wrasse tend to have very thick slime coats so while they can be carriers of parasites (and infect other fish), many will never show symptoms.

 

[the1320god]

What would you guys recommend I do? If the parasite cant feed on him, It should die off and 76 days later I can add my 2 fish back?

 

[Brew12]

What would you guys recommend I do? If the parasite cant feed on him, It should die off and 76 days later I can add my 2 fish back?

The parasites can feed on him, just not in as large of numbers. They will normally look healthy since the only place the parasite can thrive is in their gills.

You really need to catch him and get him out and treated.

 

[HotRocks]

What would you guys recommend I do? If the parasite cant feed on him, It should die off and 76 days later I can add my 2 fish back?

You will have to get the fish out and treat it. The tank has to be fallow meaning 0 fish to break the cycle.

Wrasse just hide the affliction really well. With a fish in the tank they parasites continue to cycle, even if the wrasse doesn't show outward symptoms.

 

[the1320god]

That's what I thought... Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[foxt]

Fish can develop temporary or even permanent immunity to velvet. It is just a lot more uncommon than immunity to ich. Also, as previously mentioned, everyone from collectors to wholesalers to most LFS employ some sort of parasite management technique. Running a UV, subtherapeutic copper, herbal remedies, etc.

I have seen so many different opinions on UV and parasites, can we nail this down? In your write up on ich management, you also mention UV as being beneficial. Does a sufficiently sized UV have a role to play in mitigation - not cure - of ich and velvet?

 

[svogun]

Ive had two orders of fish from different reputable online dealers with fish coming in with velvet lately and I almost feel like I have to start ramping copper up within 24 hours of acclimation to QT to have a chance of treating it successfully even if there are no symptoms. I've tried the observation method and have been 0 for 2 when starting to ramp up copper to therapeutic levels within 48 hrs of symptom onset. Anyone prophylactically treating earlier? Also thoughts on freshwater bath and acriflavine bath on day of arrival prior to placement in QT?

Been in the hobby for over 30 years and definitely feel like velvet is trumping cyrpto in terms of its frequency.

 

[Humblefish]

I have seen so many different opinions on UV and parasites, can we nail this down? In your write up on ich management, you also mention UV as being beneficial. Does a sufficiently sized UV have a role to play in mitigation - not cure - of ich and velvet?

A UV or diatom filter will filter out the free swimming stage of parasites, worms, harmful free floating bacteria, etc. Basically, it eliminates everything (both good & bad) in the water column. However, it’s exact effectiveness is determined by a number of factors: How bad of an infestation you have in your tank i.e. how many free swimmers are active in the water, which pathogen are you trying to manage (e.g. velvet dinospores are more numerous than ich theronts), the size of the UV/diatom being used in relation to the water volume of your aquarium...

In the end, I feel it is unrealistic to expect 100% eradication from a UV or diatom filter. A few free swimmers are always going to make their way onto a fish before they can be filtered out. However, the following greatly increases your chances of successfully managing disease via a UV or diatom filter:

1. The larger the tank, the more diluted the parasites will be, the more likely they will not come into contact with a fish in lethal concentrations.
2. Buy the biggest UV/diatom you can. Bigger is better here and you want as many GPH as possible, because an oversized UV/diatom will more effectively/more quickly eliminate pathogens from the water.
3. Have a backup UV/diatom, because the moment your primary unit breaks your shield goes down.
4. When running a UV, change out the lamp every 6 months for maximum effectiveness and make sure GPH is slow enough to effectively zap parasites. Most UVs have different flow rates for removing algae spores and parasites (slower).
5. The small diatom filter I use (this one) for water clarity purposes clogs after just a few days. So, I take it apart, rinse everything out and recharge with new diatomaceous earth. I can do this whenever I have time because I am not depending upon it for disease management purposes. However, if that was it’s primary function then you would want a backup on standby or clean it/get it back online ASAP so there wasn’t much “down time” for removing parasites.
6. You are far more likely to be successful managing ich or preventing a bacterial infection from spreading with this approach. IMO/E; velvet dinospores are usually too numerous to be effectively managed. Brook, uronema and worm infestations all have a direct lifecycle i.e. they never leave the fish, so running a UV/diatom might only protect other fish from getting the disease.

 

[Humblefish]

Anyone prophylactically treating earlier? Also thoughts on freshwater bath and acriflavine bath on day of arrival prior to placement in QT?

Because I QT 50-60 fish at a time now, I must assume at least some have velvet. So this is my new strategy (and it’s working well):

1. Most of my fish go straight into Chloroquine, predosed at 40mg/gal, so that’s easy.
2. But with the copper fish (wrasses, anthias, Hippo Tangs) I drop them into QTs predosed with chelated copper @ 1.0ppm. Most seem to handle sudden exposure to that concentration fine, eating the same day. I then ramp the Cu level up to minimum therapeutic (1.5 ppm) over a 48 hour period; before finally (and slowly) settling at 1.75ppm over the next 4-5 days.