Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. tastyfish

    tastyfish Active Member UK Reef Club Member

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    The commercial name is Avloclor. It's an anti-malarial treatment, available from pharmacists. I'm not sure of the pharmacy laws in the US, but in the UK it needs to be prescribed, however we can order it from online pharmacies with the justification of planning a little trip to Honduras in a few weeks...

    (Note: Chloroquine is not being prescribed as much as it used to be, due to chloroquine resistant strains of malaria. Make sure you specify Honduras as your holiday destination, otherwise they may prescribe something else).

    PS: Do NOT order chloroquine on ebay or from china in bulk. God knows what the purity etc is on that stuff and I've heard of mortalities with people using CP sourced that way.
     

  2. tastyfish

    tastyfish Active Member UK Reef Club Member

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    Fish can be carrying the parasite without external signs. If you have velvet in your tank, all fish will be infected (usually in the gills). What you see isn't the parasite, it's the body's reaction to it.

    You will need to remove all fish from the display and treat at the same time in QT. The parasite will remain in your display tank for 6-8 weeks for velvet, so you must keep it fallow for that as a minimum. Given the fact that whitespot (cryptocaryon irritans) can survive up to 72 days, I would aim for that to ensure there's no chance of a misidentification or multiple infection catching you out.

    In terms of how to move them across, I prepare a freshwater dip with some acriflavine (I use Myxazine) in to give each fish a 5 minute dip on their way into QT. The medication takes a while to start giving the fish relief and so the freshwater and acriflavine can help give some relief by removing some of the parasites from the gills.

    There is a question over if it's best to get the fish into QT before medication is added or to do everything at once. If QT'ing new arrivals, I would give a short while to settle before medicating. But personally with an outbreak, I would get everything under treatment straight away, without delay. Especially with velvet.

    You want them out of the display as soon as possible so they are not exposed to ever increasing levels of hatching parasites.

    I've just returned my surviving fish to the display after a particularly nasty suspected double infection of brookynella and velvet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  3. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Shrimp can stay in the DT. I would at the very least catch the fish and perform a freshwater dip and transfer to the QT. The freshwater dip might buy them some time until the other medications arrive.

    You could follow with a formalin dip as well, although humble has mentioned that his success rates were much better treating using a product containing acriflavine (ruby reef rally or API fungus cure, for example), rather than formalin... due to the harshness of the latter.

    Do you you plan to use copper? What medications are on the way?
     
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  4. reacclimating 2 the hobby

    reacclimating 2 the hobby patience is... oh look an acro pack fs! R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I have all of the other medications mentioned by humble in route. Ruby Reef Rally, Quick Cure(has arrived), cupramine, kanaplex, focus and metroplex.

    I will work on catching them, freshwater dip and into QT until the other meds arrive.
     
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  5. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Good plan. When they do arrive, I would do the Ruby Reef Rally bath first - 90 minutes in a separate container (I use a 5-gallon bucket and treat 2-3 fish at a time, using an airstone and small heater to keep temp/aeration) then start gradually raising the copper in your QT over 48 hours. Usually, I like to take a bit longer... but with velvet there is just no time. Once you get copper to therapeutic, I'd add in the kanaplex to help ward off infection.
     
  6. reacclimating 2 the hobby

    reacclimating 2 the hobby patience is... oh look an acro pack fs! R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Thank you, I have a copper test kit coming as well. I'll have to read up on a good starting point and where to get it to.

    Should I change out the QT water once the meds arrive and prior to putting them back in after treatment?
     
  7. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    A big water change before wouldn’t hurt, to remove as many free-swimmers as possible and help remove any ammonia prior to starting the copper. But no, I don’t think a 100% change is necessary.

    After 30 days of therapeutic copper (keeping a careful eye on the level to ensure it hasn’t dipped below .35-.4) you can remove the medication using cuprasorb and water changes. Then they should stay in the un-medicated QT for the remainder of your 6-week fallow period. It’s recommended to observe at LEAST 2 weeks to ensure treatment was successful.
     
  8. reacclimating 2 the hobby

    reacclimating 2 the hobby patience is... oh look an acro pack fs! R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Should I put a light on the qt tank? Thank you for the help... 12hours later all fish are out(each took a 5min freshwater bath) and all rock and corals are back in...
     
  9. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    You can, but you don’t have to. I have one of those cheap LED lights for mine, but most of the time I just leave it off anyway.
     
  10. reacclimating 2 the hobby

    reacclimating 2 the hobby patience is... oh look an acro pack fs! R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Three fish have passed in QT... don't think it was setup long enough perhaps. I had a filter pad in my dt for a few days and Seachem Stabability. Sad day.
     
  11. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Do you have an ammonia alert? What is the copper level right now?
     
  12. reacclimating 2 the hobby

    reacclimating 2 the hobby patience is... oh look an acro pack fs! R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    No copper yet. Just a freshwater dip and into qt. Meds are all in route and ammonia alert badge. Only two clownfish are left...
     
  13. f793wm

    f793wm Member R2R Supporter

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    Feedback on Procedure:

    It lost a $350 Angelfish (RIP) I got from an online retainer 10 days ago that mysteriously came down with velvet and Ich yesterday while in QT yesterday.
    I believe it was the part about quickly raising the copper level to therapeutic quickly plus I had added Furan-2 to the QT as well. I say this because I also had a small "test damsel" in the QT that did not have velvet and did not get the FWD or Formalin bath, and it also passed this a.m. (RIP)

    In retrospect I probably should have just followed the copper procedure and not added the Furan-2 at the same time:

    Day 1. FWD, Formalin Bath, Raise Copper to .25 mg/L
    Day 3. Raise Copper to .5mg/L
    Day 5. Furan-2 or Kanaplex

    Post Mort-em skin scrape shows that velvet is gone, but minor ich infection still present.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  14. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I would replace the formalin with acriflavine. @Humblefish has mentioned his success rates have greatly increased using the acriflavine, as formalin is quite harsh on already sick and weak fish.

    Also, even though the damsel didn’t have velvet when he was added... velvet moves very quickly. It’s not uncommon for a fish to go from zero to deceased in less than 24 hours.

    Lastly, you might consider changing out the cupramine for chelated copper (Copper Power) it’s easier on fish and a bit more of a therapeutic range.

    I’ve used cupramine quite a bit myself. I usually do something like this:

    Day 1: .2
    Day 2: .35 (minimum therapeutic)
    Day 3: .4
    Day 4: .5

    Once you get over .35 the velvet if not killed, is definitely suppressed. Gives you a little more time to bring it up the rest of the way a bit more gradually. If fish start to respond poorly, you can bring it back down to .35... let it sit for a day, and then try again. If they still seem to struggle, you might abort the copper altogether and try CP instead.
     
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  15. f793wm

    f793wm Member R2R Supporter

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    Thankyou. yea I've used Cupramine a lot and it's effective if ramped up slowly. I have Copper Power being delivered today.
     
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  16. mfollen

    mfollen Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone confirm how long Velvet tormonts can stay encysted? 3-5 days seems like how long they typically last, but how long can they?

    Thanks!
     
  17. tastyfish

    tastyfish Active Member UK Reef Club Member

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    Anywhere up to 6 weeks. With velvet, you may as well go the full 72 days and cover cyrptocaryon also.
     
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