Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    I use Rally in a 75-90 minute bath (for temporary relief) before placing the fish in a QT pre-dosed with CP. The entire process is outlined here (look under The short version): https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

    IME; FW dip + acriflavine (Rally) bath + CP treatment is the best way to defeat velvet. CP (or copper) treatment is essential, but your odds of success go away up if you do the FW dip + acriflavine (Rally) bath beforehand. Those two components are the only way of delivering some immediate relief to the fish, as copper/CP have only been proven to target the dinospore (free swimming) stage. So in essence, copper/CP only shield the fish from reinfection after the trophonts have dropped off.

    Using acriflavine during TTM is, of course, optional but probably not a bad idea if you have access to it. Some (on another forum) are already doing this with formalin. However, I caution to limit exposure time to 60-90 minutes to limit masking. Just in case that is a cause for concern.
     

  2. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Wanted to add a couple of puffers to this velvet thread. Both were treated the exact same way: 5 min FW dip, 90 min acriflavine bath, and then placed in a QT pre-dosed with Chloroquine phosphate @ 60mg/gal. This first one I lost :(. He's a Spiny Box Puffer (Chilomycterus schoepfi), and was badly infested with velvet, brook, flukes and a bacterial infection over both eyes. (He died before I could begin deworming/antibiotic treatment.)

    [​IMG]

    This next one is a Dog Face Puffer (Arothron nigropunctatus) with a slight case of velvet & ich. He is responding well to treatment, eating well, and I would be surprised if he didn't survive.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. nanomania

    nanomania Valuable Member

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    Spiney was so cute...
     
  4. merlberg

    merlberg Well-Known Member

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    Can i use prazipro in my DT?
     
  5. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, but there are some risks (see below).

    Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).

    How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

    Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.

    Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.

    Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.
     
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  6. nanomania

    nanomania Valuable Member

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    Since iv had an ick/velvet outbreak, my tank has been fallow since 10th april 2016, gona keep it fallow till 10th july 2016. Due to this, iv had crazy pod population. Since iv read that mandarins dont get affected by vlevet/ick, can i add one? Will that be fine?
     
  7. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    You'll still want to run it through QT. They may have a good resistance to those parasites, but they can still be carriers and bring it into the tank. TTM works pretty well and you can add pods to the QT and even spend time getting him to eat some frozen.
     
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  8. nanomania

    nanomania Valuable Member

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    Howmany pods would be enough? Any idea of hie to trap pods?
     
  9. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    These were sent to me by @Reefahholic. First is a pic of a Sailfin Tang with an advanced case of velvet - visible physical symptoms of the disease are very noticeable. However, in the video below it you will see a Powder Brown Tang showing key behavioral symptoms of velvet. Behavioral signs often prelude the classic powdered sugar look when a fish has velvet, and it is at this point that the fish is most savable by treating with copper or Chloroquine phosphate. Thanks again to @Reefahholic for sending me these.

    [​IMG]



    upload_2016-6-12_16-2-44.png
     
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  10. VJV

    VJV Valuable Member

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    Could it not be flukes in the video? I have had Acanthurus starting to act precisely like this in the middle of copper treatment at therapeutic levels. I let the fish a couple of days more thinking that being in copper when the parasites fall off they would be killed but the symptoms persisted so I took them out and gave a 6h praziquantel Nathan's as soon as the fish entered the bath the rubbing and scrapping immediately stopped.

    How can you be sure that this behavior is Velvet and not gill flukes when the fish is showing no external physical signs?
     
  11. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    I've never seen a fish with flukes swim into the flow of a powerhead. That is a velvet only symptom, as well as staying out of the light.

    Fish with flukes will twitch their head, yawn and scratch targeting the gill area. The yawning thing seems to be unique to flukes IME.
     
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  12. Brad Vaughn

    Brad Vaughn Active Member

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    HF quick question ... Will the outlined CP protocol treat both velvet AND ich if ich is present? I want to cover my bases.
     
  13. drawman

    drawman Valuable Member

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    Yes Chloroquine Phosphate treats both velvet and ich so you're covered there :)
     
  14. Brad Vaughn

    Brad Vaughn Active Member

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    thank you drawman! feeling like this might get worked out
     
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  15. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    +1 Treat both :)
     
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  16. Brad Vaughn

    Brad Vaughn Active Member

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    Any advice for how to treat my hippo tang and wrasses?
     
  17. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Hospitality Award Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Avoid CP with hippo and wrasses. I would try coppersafe and increase it VERY slowly up (over 5 days) if the fish's health permits. If it's in bad shape now do a FW dip then bring it up over two days.
     
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  18. Brad Vaughn

    Brad Vaughn Active Member

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    Ford how about Cuprimine? The tangs a wrasses seem to have some immunity/resistance active.
     
  19. Humblefish

    Humblefish Moved On R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    ^^ This
     
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  20. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Hospitality Award Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Cupramine is not a bad choice but I've had better luck with coppersafe with fragile species (wrasse are fragile with copper)

    If you do use it I'll be interested to hear how it went!
     
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