Velvet in tank.. setting up QT need help

[RomoFL]

** I double posted this in Tank Emergency forum too - apologies**

So I think this all started with the intro of our new blue hippo tang.. she came in and within a week started showing ich-like symptoms and quickly the powder brown and yellow tang go them too. We started treating the tank with PolypLab's Medic at 4 scoops per dose. Within a week the powder brown started looking way worse - with so many spots and some areas the spots looked like clusters. He wasn't moving as well as he normally did but still ate.. however he ended up passing shortly after. The next death was our mandarin a few days later.. he didn't seem ill to me but my fiance said she thought she noticed a few specs of white on his fins. He was eating well too but sadly he perished but like I said he didn't look ill. Then this weekend, our eldest member, Nemo (my 8yr old, then 6 year old, named the clown lol) passed away Saturday. Around the time the mandarin died, I noticed this guy looking like he was coated with something.. he looked a little lighter or like he had a film on him. The fins were also kind of tattered. Late Friday and early Saturday he looked like he was very lethargic and would even lay on the sand bed some times. His appetite had not been the same for a few days too. When I noticed his symptoms, I also noticed one of our designer Frostbite clowns didn't quite look the same either. The white scales had patchy areas around the dorsal and he would hide in the shadows a lot. His appetite wasn't quite the same either. He passed on Sunday after Nemo passed the day before. So in the span of a little over a week, we lost a powder brown, a mandarin, and two clowns. The live-stock that's survived so far are: Melanurus wrasse, flame hawk fish, fox face, yellow tang, one frostbite clown, one chromis, and the one who I think brought this all in, the blue hippo tang.

My fiance and I broke down our 20g AIO peninsula last night to turn it into a QT tank. We cleaned the tank out completely - taking out all sand and rock. We cleaned every equipment and mixed new salt. So now we have fresh salt water (35.0ppt), a pump, a wave pump and a heater. I need to get a filter sock, pvc pipes, air stone/pump, ammonia detector, copper (Looking for chelated copper), and a tester (probably Hanna). We think we know what we need to do - so here's the plan:

Remove all fish from DT (Reefer 350) and put into QT (IM 20 peninsula)
Run DT fallow for 80 days (there are a few pieces of coral and inverts in DT)
Run chelated copper in QT at 1.5-2.0 ppm for 30 days (slowly ramp up to therapeutic levels over 7 days)
Remove copper from QT via water changes (full tank) and activated carbon
Observe livestock in QT until fallow period of DT is done
Transfer fish into DT one by one over a few weeks - starting with smallest less aggressive fish

Does this all sound okay? I have a few questions still and would be so grateful if anyone can address these:

-During fallow of DT, would it be okay to introduce new rock work or change aquascape? I figured it would be easier with all the fish out.
-Should I continue running my skimmer and refugium in the DT? I know i'll be ghost-feeding so I would imagine filtration should stay the same? (I need to mention I am also experiencing a ULN issue now that had caused cyano and then dino.. 0.02ppm PO4 and almost 0 NO3)
-I'm choosing chelated copper because I have a melanurus wrasse - is this the right choice? Should he be able to withstand the therapeutic levels of copper along with his tank mates for 30 days?
-I'll have a tupperware filled with sand for the melanurus. Would this be an issue with the copper?
-I have some small pieces of Bio-Lux ceramic media - is this okay to keep in the QT with the copper treatment?

I know this is a long post so I am very sorry for that. We're just extremely nervous for our surviving livestock and we have never set up a QT before. Going forward we'll be QTing every fish - we just need to get past this current situation.

 

[Florida Sunshine]

It sounds like you are in a situation very similar to mine except my current fish are not exhibiting any symptoms so I have more time. Every time I add a new fish, the tank breaks out and the new fish dies and sometimes takes out an existing fish as well.
From my reading, I can tell you what I have read that the bowl of sand for the wrasse and the ceramic media are fine, just know that they can't go into your display after the treatment. They may absorb a bit of copper but you will need to be monitoring that closely anyway.
My #1 suggestion would be to order a Hanna Copper checker and extra reagents before beginning to dose copper.
Moving things in your display is perfectly fine but if you add anything "wet" you will need to reset your clock on the fallow tank. If I was going to add new rock, or anything wet I would add it at the beginning of the fallow period.
I am planning to keep the filtration in my tank the same and I will be feeding the inverts and corals in the tank so that should keep the bacteria in the tank happy.
I would search some of the disease threads to specifically look up the melanarus wrasse as some wrasses do not tolerate copper at all, but I don't remember which ones as I don't have one currently.

 

[RomoFL]

Thanks - I just want to clarify that the existing livestock do not exhibit any illness EXCEPT the blue hippo which looks like velvet (if not then an extremely severe case of ich). I'm just treating all the fish in the same QT with the same levels of copper.

Good point on fallow period resetting if I'm adding in wet rock. I'll definitely keep that in mind. As for the Hanna checker - it's in my cart right now. I'm just hoping my fish stay alive while all the stuff gets here. It's hard to find chelated copper locally too.

 

[Jeepjeep_0]

Just started this a few weeks ago. Similar situation, never religiously QT’d before but I’ve learned my lesson. I think your in good shape with your plan.
I used Cupramine whacked my powder blue with the full dose in a 10G right away cause he was about to give up on life, he’s been in 2 weeks and is 100% better, eats like a pig, and actually seems less skittish than he did in my DT.
The rest of my fish went in a 55g. I was worried about my wrasse as well with the Cupramine but I started at 1/4 dose and rose it to full dose over 5 days. He’s doing great and everyone is acting/eating great.
I but some live rock from my sump in my 55 for a few days with some cheap media meant for HOB filters before I Cupramined the 55. Returned the live rock to the sump before any introduction of the copper. I do like 10% water changes every 3 or 4 days and add in the appropriate Cupramine to replenish the changes water. Don’t use anything you wanna put back in your DT with your corals. I bought like 10$ worth of PVC fittings in various sizes for hiding.
Seachem makes a good ammonia badge to that has been super helpful. Not sure if the product your using will do it but Cupramine makes the API ammonia test look way higher than it really is.

 

[RomoFL]

So you used ionic copper with a wrasse at full therapeutic levels for 30 days and he did just fine? That's awesome! Yes I have heard that a slow ramp up really helps, but I thought it was safer with chelated copper vs ionic on the wrasse. This is good to hear.

 

[Jeepjeep_0]

So you used ionic copper with a wrasse at full therapeutic levels for 30 days and he did just fine? That's awesome! Yes I have heard that a slow ramp up really helps, but I thought it was safer with chelated copper vs ionic on the wrasse. This is good to hear.

I’m only a week in at full treatment with cupramine, so fingers crossed. He is acting/ eating great though. He was one of the ones who showed ick and or the velvet bad and now looking great. Just a six line though not some fancy designer wrasse, but been with us a long time so losing him would be terrible but between him and my powder blue their lives were definitely on the line.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. Its very hard to go through this... I know.

Sounds like something sinister such as brook or velvet. You really need to make sure you diagnose the correct issue here so you can administer the appropriate medications in the QT. Based on this description " I noticed this guy looking like he was coated with something.. he looked a little lighter or like he had a film on him." does sound more like brook to me.

Can you take pictures of remaining livestock and post?

Also check out these threads to help identify what you're seeing first hand.

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s). * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute...

www.reef2reef.com

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) What You Need To Know: * Fast killing parasite capable of wiping out most of your fish in just a matter of days. Sometimes there are survivors, sometimes not. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank using Chloroquine phosphate or Copper. A 5...

www.reef2reef.com

In regards to your questions see my answer below in bold.

-During fallow of DT, would it be okay to introduce new rock work or change aquascape? I figured it would be easier with all the fish out. Yes you can its a great time to do so... However, anything new added to your scape will restart the fallow period which is 6 weeks minimum for brook and velvet.

-Should I continue running my skimmer and refugium in the DT? I know i'll be ghost-feeding so I would imagine filtration should stay the same? (I need to mention I am also experiencing a ULN issue now that had caused cyano and then dino.. 0.02ppm PO4 and almost 0 NO3). Continue to ghost feed or direct feed any corals or inverts you have with coral food, reef roids, etc.. Need to keep feeding beneficial bacteria.

-I'm choosing chelated copper because I have a melanurus wrasse - is this the right choice? Should he be able to withstand the therapeutic levels of copper along with his tank mates for 30 days? Yes that the best option if you're dealing with velvet.

-I'll have a tupperware filled with sand for the melanurus. Would this be an issue with the copper? No it is not an issue but does slightly affect the absorption rate of the copper. Read this thread by @Humblefish for more details.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/go-ahead-and-use-sand-in-qt.653981/

-I have some small pieces of Bio-Lux ceramic media - is this okay to keep in the QT with the copper treatment? Yes totally okay! You definitely need a place for beneficial bacteria to thrive in QT and there isn't a lot of porous areas in QT in general.

 

[RomoFL]

Thank you pathot984! I’ll check out those articles. Yes the clowns that died did look like brook now that I see photos of it. I do have a photo of the designer clown that passed but not of the orange clownfish which was easier to see the film.

 

[RomoFL]

Okay today we got the livestock a bath of Ruby Reef Rally for 90 mins. Had to remove most of the rock to get them out. They sat in a 18g Tupperware tub with a heater and airstone for about 90 min and I guess because they were so scared they dirtied they crap out of the water.. the amount of poop and stuff was ridiculous. It was a fresh batch of salt water.

We then transferred them to the QT tank and started the first dosage of CopperSafe. Huge shoutout to my LFS for hooking me up with a cup of the stuff for free. I’ll slowly ramp up the copper to therapeutic levels for about a week then hold that steady for 30 days.

How often do you think I’ll need to do a water change? The QT had live bacteria (Fritz turbo) and there’s a filter sock.. I have 7 fish.

 

[detran]

Hello,

I'd throw a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge in that QT tank just to be sure. I'd say as long as ammonia and nitrites are untraceable, you can keep doing it once a week or 5 days. If ammonia and nitrites are present, you need to keep up with 50% to 25% water changes daily to stop them from building up. Just remember that if you are using copper, you need to medicate, to the same level or higher, the fresh batch of water before adding it into your QT.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[Terri Caton]

I think the hardest thing about ich, etc is that they can lay dormant in the tank until the fish get stressed and then it affects the fish. Best thing you can do is treat the fish and let the tank lay fallow so that ALL of it is gone. Then, QT those new fish! Especially Tangs.

QT doesn't have to be a long, drawn out, horrible experience for the fish. I do think people go way overboard with it.

Some fish don't do well in QT, like Anthias, so it's a tricky thing. Best thing for those fish is to set up a larger tank (like 30 gallons) so they have plenty of room to swim and treat with Metro for 14 days.

Another option is to remove inverts and treat the tank with fish in it using Chloroquine for 30 days. Problem is if you have fish that can't take Chloroquine (and the inverts can't either) you'll need 3 tanks. One for the inverts, one for the fish that can't be in Chloroquine, and the DT.

Great article here. https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

You can purchase it here without a prescription.

Chloroquine Phosphate Powder [CHLOR] - $39.99 : Everything Aquatic Store

Everything Aquatic Store Chloroquine Phosphate Powder [CHLOR] - NOTICE - Chloroquine Phosphate is again unavailable due to the FDA holding all shipments while they re-evaluate allowing its availability for ornamental fish use. This is occurring due to the fact that people were self-medicating...

store.everythingaquatic.net

Oh, BTW, you don't have a QT tank at this point. It's a hospital tank. Quarantine is for fish that show no signs of illness. Hospital tank once they are sick.

Both Chloroquine and Metro can be removed from the tank with activated carbon after the treatment period is over.

 

[RomoFL]

Great info - thank you Terri.

I can’t use CP because of my wrasse and went chelated copper. You’re right - this is a hospital tank currently and not actually a QT. This was an emergency setup and didn’t have much time to plan it out. I wish I could have a bigger tank but unfortunately I don’t have much room for it. The main DT will be running fallow for 80 days as originally intended. I do need to get an ammonia alert badge. Until then I’ll do small water changes each morning just in case.