Velvet ,... The quick killer... In 1000gallons

[charleslotz]

So progressing along ,... Have two serious questions for humble or ford.... Or any fish expert.

In my display I have 3 Miller molli blennies ,... And in the refurgium I have a pink spot and dwarf golden Eel... I cannot get them out is this a problem ,.. Will they keep velvet around ? They seem uneffected and doing great ,.. Sps are doing great ,.. Seems I now have some weird brown algue growth stingy easily removed , ... And a pink slime buildup in my skimmers ...comes out in chunks??? Ordered a 80 strong cleanup crew today .

Second question fish list...

I'm thinking ...-

1) 3 Miller molli blennies
2) optional have a stunted purple tang- making it in hospital
3) optional have a Fowleri - in hospital
4) optional cleaner wrasse
4) optional a copperband
5) optional clown pair - thinking gold stripe maroon pair wild caught fully grown .
6) Im dreaming about a pair of conspicuous Angels .... This will be a big purchace have one of our venders getting me a pair or for now getting me availability and price ... Reseach is slim on keeping a pair,... Anything I should be concerned about. So the tank will be for the Angels and the other fish will be to serve some purpose... If I cannot keep a pair then what other larger Angels pair can you keep together besides the swallow tails? With sps !
Or
7) I know they are not rare fish but I really love the emperer Angel think if I order two juvenile orange tails and they grow up together this will work ,.. In my display ?
Or
8)6 regals all juveniles?
Thinking out of the box here ....


Then in refurgium ;

1)clown pair
2) pink spot
3) dwarf golden eel.

And that's it...

 

[Duke4Life]

I'm going to say yes because they are a host to this since they've been in contact with the velvet.

 

[NeptuneGarden]

Thanks I have a 36w twist on a shelf ,... Think I'll hook that up 2.... Should be strong enough for 60 gallon quarantine ?

put a fresh bulb in and slow the flow way down. 50-60gph max. should help some.

 

[Duke4Life]

This is a nightmare really for eel owners, I really don't know what I'd do. I have an eel as well.

 

[Duke4Life]

@Humblefish having an eel with velvet being involved, time 2 get crazy and suggest ttm for the eel, But must be done every 12 hours.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm going to say yes because they are a host to this since they've been in contact with the velvet.

^^ Agree. ALL fish must be removed in order for the fallow period to be successful. Some fish can be asymptomatic, but are still carriers capable of infecting other fish. Using CP would be ideal to treat an eel for velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

 

[4FordFamily]

^^ Agree. ALL fish must be removed in order for the fallow period to be successful. Some fish can be asymptomatic, but are still carriers capable of infecting other fish. Using CP would be ideal to treat an eel for velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

X2 unfortunately. Any fish will keep velvet around you'll need to catch them all

Now on the stocking ideas, in a tank that size you can get away with breaking a lot of rules. Add tangs in groups for best results.

 

[charleslotz]

Not good news..... Will try tonight while lights are out they sit together on the sandbeds ,... Bright light and net... 3 am ....

Should I put the eel in ich shield ?... Will call my vet tomorrow and see if I can get cp... If I can't get is there another option ?

 

[Humblefish]

Should I put the eel in ich shield ?... Will call my vet tomorrow and see if I can get cp... If I can't get is there another option ?

I don't normally recommend the Ick Shield powder (which is CP sourced from China). But if you can't get a script from your vet for pharmaceutical grade CP, Ick Shield would be your only feasible option left.

 

[Robmbush]

Sorry to hear this story as I am battling the same issue. Believe velvet got into my 300Gallon system through under treated fish (all were in copper before my tank but maybe time too short or level was too low) or some live rock that I picked up from the LFS covered with coral polyps and mushrooms.

I'm over a month into the disaster and lost all but two fish at this point: a Golden pygmy angel who seems 100% healthy and is still in the 200gallon DT and a Black Clown who is sick in QT with coppersafe. I'm afraid to pull the Golden out since he is most comfortable living in the hiding places of the rock work and only comes out to eat his nori. RIP (Tangs: Powder Blue, Powder Brown, Yellow, Sail fin, Purple and my black clowns mate).

I have had large saltwater systems for over 10 years and never dealt with more than a minor spat with ICH. I use all the top end/oversized equipment, feed well and maintain the ideal water parameters. The only new piece of equipment being added as part of this experience is an 80W Emperor UV sterilizer to hopefully keep things from going critical so quickly in the future.

Self reflection on where I went wrong so far:

-Not long enough QT times and let something sneak it in

-Tried Ich Shield food in a isolated system off the main water for a bit because I first thought I was dealing with ICH. This seemed to be working for a few days but the fish eventually started rejecting the food. Lost my powder blue. wouldn't use this food again since I lost valuable time trying to go the easy route.

- Freshwater dip and moved yellow and clowns to QT with ich shield bath which may have removed the velvet but my yellow tang died a few days later with white blotches all over and what looked to be rotting fins (this happened within 24 hours). I believe he was killed by a secondary infection. Fish refused all pellet food and I speculate that its because they hated the taste of the CP food now is in the water column.. Don't know if Ich Shield powder and prior use of the food is the cause or velvet had just done too much damage. Should have done a medicated dip post freshwater for helping with possible infection.

-Transitioned black clown to Coppersafe and discontinued the ich shield powder use. Time will tell if switching medications will prove to be a bad choice...​

I really don't want to pull out my Golden pygmy angel from the DT and will be cranking up the massive UV unit today. Golden has been in the tank through the thick of it and seems to be without a scratch although my experience has shown that things can change on a dime and I'll never be sure its gone without running the tank farrow.

Wish me luck and feel free to provide any suggestions on how you would handle the pygmy angel. He is my favorite fish!!

Rob

 

[Robmbush]

Sorry to hear this story as I am battling the same issue. Believe velvet got into my 300Gallon system through under treated fish (all were in copper before my tank but maybe time too short or level was too low) or some live rock that I picked up from the LFS covered with coral polyps and mushrooms.

I'm over a month into the disaster and lost all but two fish at this point: a Golden pygmy angel who seems 100% healthy and is still in the 200gallon DT and a Black Clown who is sick in QT with coppersafe. I'm afraid to pull the Golden out since he is most comfortable living in the hiding places of the rock work and only comes out to eat his nori. RIP (Tangs: Powder Blue, Powder Brown, Yellow, Sail fin, Purple and my black clowns mate).

I have had large saltwater systems for over 10 years and never dealt with more than a minor spat with ICH. I use all the top end/oversized equipment, feed well and maintain the ideal water parameters. The only new piece of equipment being added as part of this experience is an 80W Emperor UV sterilizer to hopefully keep things from going critical so quickly in the future.

Self reflection on where I went wrong so far:

-Not long enough QT times and let something sneak it in

-Tried Ich Shield food in a isolated system off the main water for a bit because I first thought I was dealing with ICH. This seemed to be working for a few days but the fish eventually started rejecting the food. Lost my powder blue. wouldn't use this food again since I lost valuable time trying to go the easy route.

- Freshwater dip and moved yellow and clowns to QT with ich shield bath which may have removed the velvet but my yellow tang died a few days later with white blotches all over and what looked to be rotting fins (this happened within 24 hours). I believe he was killed by a secondary infection. Fish refused all pellet food and I speculate that its because they hated the taste of the CP food now is in the water column.. Don't know if Ich Shield powder and prior use of the food is the cause or velvet had just done too much damage. Should have done a medicated dip post freshwater for helping with possible infection.

-Transitioned black clown to Coppersafe and discontinued the ich shield powder use. Time will tell if switching medications will prove to be a bad choice...​

I really don't want to pull out my Golden pygmy angel from the DT and will be cranking up the massive UV unit today. Golden has been in the tank through the thick of it and seems to be without a scratch although my experience has shown that things can change on a dime and I'll never be sure its gone without running the tank farrow.

Wish me luck and feel free to provide any suggestions on how you would handle the pygmy angel. He is my favorite fish!!

Rob

Update:

• Black clown is doing very well after her first week in Coppersafe at directed dosage and a single round of KanaPlex
• Golden pygmy angel is still loving life as the only fish in the 200G DT. Seems to be perfectly healthy.
• 80watt Emperor UV sterilizer has been running for a week dialed to 15L/Min (about 240 GPH) flow as measured by a GPI flow meter. This is right in the middle of the OEM recommended range for killing protozoa. The tank has never looked more clear and the water parameters are all looking great.

 

[charleslotz]

Well ,... All said and done , I have been through the process and slowly restocking ... In the end I feel that no matter what when velvet is due it's due ,... Quarantine as you like this only reduces your risk , sorry to sound like a pessimist.

I'm reluctantly back to a couple fish ,... 3 wrasses , yellow tang , one clown and a file fish ....
And 2 pipe fish...

Think i will keep it at that level for a while,.... Sps whent through an adjustment period it's taken some effort to find a balance with adding nutrients, to a now alra, atra low nutrient system .... And I have lost some of my old colonies but have added some great new pieces ...

This experience has had many lessons and has made me appreciate everything in my tank ,... And I now take pleasure in my srooms and zoa as mush as watching my pipe fish ....

I have most probable adopted the must vigilant quarantine process as a reaction , being nothing goes into the 800 gallon without 60 days of quarantine.

I am saving my display for something special ,.... Mmmm ...Rare angel pair ,... Or dragon eels, cow, box fish tank ,... or perhaps something not done as yet ..... it will come to me over time ,... Just doing research for now ....

Humble, Ford any unique suggestions , on what to do with an 800 gallon system , that will be a meticulous challenge ?

 

[Robmbush]

Glad to hear your tank is back up and getting stocked!

 

[Humblefish]

Humble, Ford any unique suggestions , on what to do with an 800 gallon system , that will be a meticulous challenge ?

How about sharks & rays? Or some large angels/large tangs.

 

[Robmbush]

Update on my own bout with the velvet plague:

Tried to restock some tangs after 4 weeks with only the Golden angel and Black clown in the tank showing no signs of issues. I was also running the Emperor UV with the properly adjusted flow to kill protozoa 24/7.

After a couple weeks the new Tangs started to show signs of Velvet so I pulled all fish on June 25th and they have been in two connected 100G stock tanks running off a Hydor pro 600 canister filter ever since.

DT will be empty until early Sept except for the corals and inverts.

Lessons learned:

• Even a properly sized UV wont stop the plague but I do believe it slowed it down round 2!
• Coppersafe saved my Clown in the first round and successfully treated my Tangs/Butterfly this round with no losses. I did purchase some high quality CP that they will be treated with again under general QT levels before going back in the DT (Just in case there was cross contamination during the farrow period).
• All new fish are going to get a general QT in CP for minimally a month!
• All new corals are going in an isolated coral only tank for minimally a month to let any possible spores die off!

Wish me luck!

 

[MT. Reefer]

Moorish Idols would be COOL. I just don't have the tank size for them, but you do.

 

[charleslotz]

Nice idea Larry ,....... I like it ....

Theoretically So how would I do that , .... I have 400 8' display ... Rest +- 400-600 Is refurgium/carpet tank (almost no algue left) and filtration....

How many .... 15 -20 moorish idols ,... ?
Don't think I need to add at once say 5 at a time ? Not to tax the filtration .... But I can slowly start ghost feeding to build bio filter ....( should I just add straight amonia or actually feed)
Are they territorial? ,...
I would need to run an extensive quarantine ,... Say 150 gallons for 5 moorish idols at a time ... So I can pay attention to feeding and health.... Would plan to do just normal pest control in quarantine ,... No copper or cp? With loads of macro algue and deal with outbreak when/if happens... Bloodworms and clams live ms ,... This will indeed be a challenge.
All 15-20 at the same time would be challenging .... Suppose a secondary plan would be to hook up an additional tank to the main system, and borrow 20 tangs from my LfS ,... To get the system ready to deal with the load... Double quarantine,... Would take some time this way .......

Any suggestions ?

 

[MT. Reefer]

Like I said, I've never had the tank size to keep them. I just think that they are an awesome looking fish. You should probably talk to someone who has kept them successfully, because I understand they can be hard to feed.

 

[Humblefish]

Oh man, I just thought of something! You could put a BATFISH in that size tank. Here are a few pics I stole from Reefbuilders of a TR Pinnatus. They can get to be 18" tall, so you need a big/tall tank:

 

[charleslotz]

Also good idea ,.... I'll do some research