Vibrant by UWC testing

[jason2459]

Hey are you using phase contrast by chance?
I am having a heck of a time locating any bacteria in this.

I used the imaging/video capturing software to boost contrast and closed iris then extended exposure time.

I get to see things on my monitor I can't see through the optics.

 

[twilliard]

I used the imaging/video capturing software to boost contrast and closed iris then extended exposure time.

I get to see things on my monitor I can't see through the optics.

dang dang as I beat on the table. I never have this hard of a time locating.

 

[jason2459]

dang dang as I beat on the table. I never have this hard of a time locating.

Stain it. After going through a staining process I found some streptococcus.

 

[jason2459]

And honestly I keep feeling like I did something wrong but its the only samples still that looked the way it did several times.

I also asked UWC if I was seeing what I'm supposed to be seeing or did something wrong.

 

[jason2459]

Oh, and do you find the viscosity to be very low and have a hard time keeping the cover slip in place?

 

[nervousmonkey]

With vibrant having a ph of 7.4 what organic carbon source would come to mind?

Vinegar.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With vibrant having a ph of 7.4 what organic carbon source would come to mind?

They state it is vinegar and aspartic acid. :)

 

[twilliard]

Oh, and do you find the viscosity to be very low and have a hard time keeping the cover slip in place?

Yes it has to be less than a single drop for me or the slip floats.
I have stained twice now, I am still inconclusive about bacterial population. I typically can see any bacteria at 1000x and higher.
I would suspect a large visual quantity at 95%

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm still not convinced it's enough of a carbon source to see the quick changes experienced by myself and others. But I could be wrong. I believe its something else at play or in addition to.

Quick changes in what? It is bacteria too, like MB7.

 

[twilliard]

They state it is vinegar and aspartic acid. :)

But the amount of vinegar is .04 oz to the 8 oz bottle dosed once a week? That amount is minute to spur bacterial growth.

 

[jason2459]

Yes it has to be less than a single drop for me or the slip floats.
I have stained twice now, I am still inconclusive about bacterial population. I typically can see any bacteria at 1000x and higher.
I would suspect a large visual quantity at 95%

95% is misleading and was explained by someone else . lol. That is very ambiguous.


Edit: here's the exchange and FWIW I never got those questions answered by the product maker

Not concerned at all about the vinegar being consumed? How is vinegar a preservative as it will be metabolized by bacteria as the amount of vinegar in solution is very low so I'm sure the pH is closer to neutral? Normal 5% Vinegar has a much lower pH were bacteria will not live to consume it.



So, basically just more bacteria.



May want to watch wording. Often it comes off like the bacteria is directly attacking these different pests you list. Like how would it waste time attacking one area vs another?




That was in response to if the product would work against dinoflagelets. How would this work against dinoflagelet heterotrophs vs phototrophs. I'm highly skeptical here. What will happen when people stop dosing after the 5th or 20th dose? I do not see this wiping out something like dinoflagelets or even cyano and diatoms. I actually feel diatoms are an important part of our phytoplankton.



How would this not effect everyththing that consumes nitrogen and phosphorous of some type. This would include corals.

Being that this is bacteria driven how does this differ from any other bacteria in a bottle. I've seen many of these same claims for many other bacteria products and people giving the same kind of reviews.

Why would this differ then just driving bacteria we already have in our tanks with some kind of carbon source.

Is there not a risk of oxygen depletion and pH drops with increased CO2? I would recommend a skimmer or some other heavy aeration with any bacteria dosing product or some form of carbon feeding like biopellets or vinegar/vodka dosing. Especially if used together.

Looking at the ingredient list doesn't make much sense with the ratio of components listed with the RODI specifically listed at only 3.5% of I assume the volume. That would make an absurd amount of bacteria. Is this a very thick slime like substance?


Vibrant Liquid Aquarium Cleaner Ingredients -

95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar - This is used as the preservative
3.5% Other Ingredients (RO/DI Water)

I can help answer this one. When bacteria is listed as an ingredient, it is the bacteria culture that is being referred to, not the bacteria itself. My guess is that the RO/DI is combined with the vinegar and amino acids before being added to the bacteria culture.

Thanks and that makes sense. I don't see the organics (acetic and aspartic acids) lasting long in that solution as bacteria will break it down.

 

[jason2459]

Quick changes in what? It is bacteria too, like MB7.

Reduced algae and in my case a quick reaction to cyano with in the first day.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Quick changes in what? It is bacteria too, like MB7.

its apparently dissolving algae rapidly.
I've done the up down nutrients control etc. I'm a pretty big advocate of that and a tooth brush but this is pretty nuts to just be carbon dosing and MB7

 

[twilliard]

My eyes are tires :( break time!

Glucose is the majority I have found so far

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My eyes are tires :( break time!

Glucose is the majority I have found so far

How are you detecting glucose?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is 1% aspartic acid by weight. How much added organic matter do you think is needed to spur cyano?

 

[jason2459]

It is 1% aspartic acid by weight. How much added organic matter do you think is needed to spur cyano?

I think this is to me?

I do not know. I would assume more then 1% of 20ml to make a big impact. But possible as I've never dosed aminos of any type before. I'm still dosing around 100ml per day of acetic acid.

In my case cyano was cut back quickly but then slowly crept back but has not reached to starting point yet.

Algae itself hasn't seemed to be impacted at all and in fact has increased in terms of film algae on my glass.

I'm still dosing 2x per week 20ml of vibrant and interesting to see my tank reacting. Most recently my rocks look "cleaner." That's hard to quantify or describe but to me its a very different look then I've seen and I don't blow them off or have touched anything in my display besides cleaning off the grills of my pumps.


I haven't changed anything in my maintenance. I have increased feedings leading up to this and continue to do so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the organics are truly nothing but preservative and insufficient to boost cyano or to drive bacterial growth in the tank, and bacteria is the only other ingredient, then, well, that's the mechanism, right? Just like MB7, but maybe more effective if what others reports is correct.

 

[Brew12]

Randy, have you done any articles on the interactions or impacts of the various organics in a reef aquarium? I'm finding this to be a very confusing issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, have you done any articles on the interactions or impacts of the various organics in a reef aquarium? I'm finding this to be a very confusing issue.

I've written on organics in aquaria, but not on the effects of adding different organics.

Organic Compounds in the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.htm