Vodka Overdose: What to worry about?

[daniel_mourra]

Do keep aeration up.

You most likely see a bacterial bloom that will suck the oxygen out of the water.

Thank you! Yes i will.

@Randy Holmes-Farley show I be worried about the 20 ml of vinegar interacting with the H2O2 and creating peracetic acid? I have a 180 gal tank… should I be worried?

 

[daniel_mourra]

@Randy Holmes-Farley is my math and process correct here?.... I think I might be on to something:
OK so to recap: I OVERDOSED my home made “NoPox recipe composed of Vodka + Vinegar by dosing 40 ml ‍today Right between my H2O2 Doses.

So now I am facing two potential problems:
-A huge Bacterial Bloom due to Vodka / Vinegar Overdose (Which I will deal with by increasing aeration and crossing my fingers....)
-Peracetic Acid in the tank when the vinegar of the solution comes into contact with the H2O2

Well...It turns out that:
"Mixing hydrogen peroxide and vinegar will not always create peracetic acid, especially in the concentrations found in household products. Mixing vinegar and hydrogen peroxide in the 3–6% concentrations typically found in household products will not produce peracetic acid without a strong acid catalyst". and "Mixing hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) and vinegar (which contains acetic acid, CH3COOH) together can potentially produce peracetic acid (CH3COOOH), especially in higher concentrations. This is an equilibrium reaction, meaning not all the reactants convert to peracetic acid; some remain as acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide.

To determine the possibility of peracetic acid (PAA) forming and posing a problem in the tank:

Solution Composition:
1. Dosed solution:
• 40 mL of a solution with 16.6% vinegar (acetic acid) and 83.4% vodka (ethanol).
• Vinegar (16.6%) in 40 mL = 40 mL x 0.166 = 6.64 mL of vinegar.
• Vinegar is roughly 5% acetic acid, so the acetic acid content is: 6.64 mL x 0.05 = 0.332 mL of pure acetic acid.

2. My Current Hydrogen peroxide dosing:
• 108 mL/day of H₂O₂ (at typical 3% H₂O₂).
• 3% H₂O₂ contains 30 g/L hydrogen peroxide, so: 108 mL/day x 0.03 = 3.24 grams of HO per day.

Reaction Potential:
The formation of peracetic acid (CH₃COOOH) requires acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide to coexist in sufficient quantities.

Tank dilution effect:
1. Tank volume: 180 gallons = 681.4 liters.
2. After dosing, the acetic acid concentration is diluted: 0.332mL/681.4 L =0.000000487 0.000487 mL/L roughly 0.487 ppm.
3. The hydrogen peroxide concentration from the daily dose is: 3.24 g / 681.4 L =0.00475 g/L roughly 4.76 ppm (daily).

Reaction likelihood:
• Peracetic acid formation requires close proximity and sufficient concentrations of both reactants.
• In this case:
• Acetic acid concentration: ~0.487 ppm.
• Hydrogen peroxide concentration: ~4.76 ppm.
• These are both low concentrations in the tank, making the reaction slow and the formation of peracetic acid minimal.
• Additionally, the high dilution in seawater further reduces the likelihood of PAA (Peracetic Acid) accumulation.

Risks to the Tank:
1. Peracetic acid levels: Even if some PAA forms, it will likely be in trace amounts due to:
• Low acetic acid levels.
• Dilution in a large tank.
• Competition with other reactions (e.g., H₂O₂ oxidizing organic matter in the tank).

2. Impact on tank life: At trace levels, PAA is unlikely to cause harm. However, if concentrations were much higher, PAA could:
• Stress or kill sensitive organisms like corals, fish, and invertebrates.
• Act as a strong oxidizing agent, disrupting biological processes.

Conclusion:
• Unlikely to be a problem: The formation of peracetic acid in my system is minimal due to the very low concentrations of acetic acid and the significant dilution in the 180-gallon tank.
• Safe margin: Monitor the tank for any signs of stress (e.g., coral retraction, fish behavior changes) and proceed cautiously with further dosing adjustments.

If I notice any signs of stress, I will consider reducing hydrogen peroxide dosing, as it is the primary oxidizer in this scenario.

Hope this helps somebody in the future!

I also hope I am right...??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you! Yes i will.

@Randy Holmes-Farley show I be worried about the 20 ml of vinegar interacting with the H2O2 and creating peracetic acid? I have a 180 gal tank… should I be worried?

In a reef tank? I would not worry about that.

 

[daniel_mourra]

Update!

18 Hours after the OD…
-Tank Visibility 6.5 ft out of 6.5 ft
-No fish or coral loses to report; No adverse behavior in corals or fish; hammers and frogspawn seem to even like the situation as they are open even at this time in the morning….
-Alkalinity continues to rise (9.24)
-pH drop has “stabilized” but it did suffer alot (7.93)
-Seems the heavy aeration and extra wavemaker installed are helping.

Will continue to monitor…

 

[daniel_mourra]

Update!

24 Hours after the OD…
-Tank Visibility Still 6.5 ft out of 6.5 ft
-Still No fish or coral loses to report; No adverse behavior in corals or fish;
-Alkalinity has leveled off and remains stable (9.24)
-pH now starting to slightly rise again (7.96)
-Seems the heavy aeration and extra wavemaker installed are helping.

Will continue to monitor…

 

[daniel_mourra]

Update Log!

32 Hours after the OD…
-Tank Visibility Still 6.5 ft out of 6.5 ft
-Still No fish or coral loses to report; No adverse behavior in corals or fish;
-Alkalinity rose a but to 9.5
-pH reached a high of 8.15! Looks like Iam in the clear?
-Seems the heavy aeration, UV, Skimmer and extra wavemaker installed was the key…

The bloom never came. Or atleast was not visible noticed…. Just the pH drop and Rise in DkH were very noticeable.

Case closed? Maybe….
Hopefully…

 

[Pridedcloth3]

Look at this chart:

The about max dose for a 1,000 gallon tank is 15.5mL after 16 weeks of dosing.

That chart isn't accurate, I say that only because for my 45 I use 15ml daily. Which this chart says is max for 1000 gallons. Also the week by week thing was completely ignored and I started with 1ml and within 2 weeks was at 15.

 

[Miami Reef]

That chart isn't accurate, I say that only because for my 45 I use 15ml daily. Which this chart says is max for 1000 gallons. Also the week by week thing was completely ignored and I started with 1ml and within 2 weeks was at 15.

I know it’s not accurate. This thread is very old. Who would’ve thought that I’d be the one to create the latest one that’d be a forum hit? I never thought it would’ve been me.

I did not create that first chart. At the time, that’s what we all used. :)

 

[Pridedcloth3]

I know it’s not accurate. This thread is very old. Who would’ve thought that I’d be the one to create the latest one that’d be a forum hit? I never thought it would’ve been me.

I did not create that first chart. At the time, that’s what we all used. :)

Been there myself. We'll somebody revived a corpes just to get my blood boiling

 

[jabberwock]

Ah man... What happened? Why does my head hurt?

 

[daniel_mourra]

create the latest one that’d be a forum hit?

Can you re-upload the latest one so we have the reference here?

 

[Miami Reef]

Can you re-upload the latest one so we have the reference here?

Sure:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-vodka-and-vinegar-dosing-charts.1024056/

 

[Pridedcloth3]

Ah man... What happened? Why does my head hurt?

I think there be a witch in our midst.