Water Change Time?

[PhilTheFish]

I set up a 15 gallon AIO nano tank on Saturday, Feb 17 (5 days ago).

I used RO saltwater from LFS, 10 pounds of live sand, and a few pieces of dry rock. I have a heater set to 76-78. The AIO has a filter on the back with a sponge on top, charcoal media bag in the middle and ceramic rings on the bottom. I was told to leave the light off for a week so I don't get any nasty algae so the light hasn't been on yet.

LFS said I was okay to put a pair of clowns in after dosing with Fritz TurboStart on Saturday (the day I set up the tank). And if I was going to put on a protein skimmer I could keep a small third fish which I chose a royal gramma. I haven't started up the skimmer yet since Fritz TurboStart directions say to wait five days.

I ended up adding a one year old snowflake ocellaris on Saturday and then a baby ocellaris and royal gramma (not sure how old he is) on Monday.

I don't know what happened but I woke up to the baby clownfish dead in the filter intake this morning. I don't know if he died and was sucked up or if he was sucked up and died. Both clowns were hosting the corner with the instake so they hung out in that area quite a bit. Since I don't know what happened I decided to test the water. I've been testing every other day. I'm using a Sera Kit.

pH has been a consistent 8.0 for last three tests.

Ammonia was 0 on setup day then rose to .50 and is still there today.

Nitrite was .25 on setup day, then dropped to 0 two days later, and today (another two days later), it's at 1.00.

Nitrate was 0 on setup day, then rose to 5 two days later, and today (another two days later), it's 10.

Salinity has been around 1.026-1.027

Do I need to do a water change today or are these swings just the tank cycling? If my levels killed the baby clownfish then obviously I want to fix the tank ASAP so the other two stay okay. And if I need to do a water change will that effect the cycling process with Fritz TurboStart?

 

[Idech]

Your tank isn’t cycled and you should not have added fish. 0.5 ppm isn’t good for fish so you should do a water change to bring it down to at least 0.25 ppm (50% WC).

Then you need to monitor ammonia every day and do WC accordingly. Fish only get sucked in filters or powerheads when they are weak. So ammonia most likely killed your fish, unless there is also disease in your tank.

 

[PhilTheFish]

Thanks for replying!

I went to my LFS and had them test the water. They said salinity was a little high with their test which is confusing since they have the same refractometer I have and I double checked with distilled water to make sure I was zeroed out properly before testing my water. They also said KH was slightly off and I needed some buffer. They didn't see any ammonia and said the tank was cycling. I asked if the salinity and KH issues could have killed the other fish and they said probably not.

Their recommendation was to add buffer they sold me and to remove a gallon of water and replace with a gallon of distilled water to bring salinity down.

Not really sure what the best course here is. I tried to do as much reading and studying as I could about saltwater tanks over the past few months but there seems to be a lot of varying opinions out there. I had analysis paralysis and decided just to jump in with the help of the LFS.

 

[Dipi]

Hello! Based on this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-toxic-is-ammonia-really.1030601/
I don't think ammonia killed your fish if your testes were accurate, but a water change would do no harm. Perhaps the fish did not acclimate well or was diseased when you add it to your tank. I'm new to the hobby, but someone else may be able to shed a light on what happened to your fish

 

[rhitee93]

I went to my LFS and had them test the water. They said salinity was a little high with their test which is confusing since they have the same refractometer I have and I double checked with distilled water to make sure I was zeroed out properly before testing my water. They also said KH was slightly off and I needed some buffer. They didn't see any ammonia and said the tank was cycling. I asked if the salinity and KH issues could have killed the other fish and they said probably not.

Calibrating your refractometer to distilled or RO/DI water is not the way to go. They are not perfectly linear, so you want to calibrate to something that is closer to your tank water. You can buy a 35ppt solution for this, or make your own. Once you do this, you will likely find it does not say zero with distilled water.

However, I think the salinity is a red herring in this case. I agree with the others that have said your tank probably isn't "cycled" yet. You need to let your tank sit without fish for a while to give the bacteria time to build up.

 

[PhilTheFish]

I have two fish in there right now but I don't have anywhere else to put them. Would a 50% water change be a good idea or am I just prolonging the cycling process since I only set this tank up 5 days ago and added Turbostart then. Would popping my protein skimmer on help with anything?

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Adding frytz and fish is fine, no issues. Either acclimation or accidentally got sucked up, also diseased.

You can do a water change at any time in any amount. Bacteria lives on surface area and not in the water column.

Fish can be fickle especially if they first come in to store.. nothing really pops out.

You can be refractometer solution for calibrating online and highly recomend one.

 

[rhitee93]

I have two fish in there right now but I don't have anywhere else to put them. Would a 50% water change be a good idea or am I just prolonging the cycling process since I only set this tank up 5 days ago and added Turbostart then. Would popping my protein skimmer on help with anything?

In that case I would say do a water change and keep reefing on. (sorry, I forgot about the other two fish by the time I replied)

Try to keep your ammonia below 0.25ppm for the next several days until the biofiltration catches up.

 

[PhilTheFish]

50% water change done and protein skimmer installed. Hopefully that'll help things. I'll test again tomorrow. Also bought some leaf guard mesh from Lowe's to make a DIY fish guard on the intake so the next baby doesn't get sucked in.

 

[PhilTheFish]

I tested again today and ammonia is the same .5 despite the 50% water change. My nitrites did go down to .5 (they were 1). Nitrate is still 10. pH still 8. Do I need to do another water change tomorrow or should I dose with Prime while the take cycles?

 

[mrpontiac80]

I tested again today and ammonia is the same .5 despite the 50% water change. My nitrites did go down to .5 (they were 1). Nitrate is still 10. pH still 8. Do I need to do another water change tomorrow or should I dose with Prime while the take cycles?

First, I like and have used fritz turbo start 900 and if that’s what you used in the correct dosage, I think your tank was fine to add fish.

What kind of test kit are you using? API is notorious for showing ammonia. Almost all the test kits rely on color matching and that can be hard to determine for a lot of people myself included. Hannah is more expensive but shows the numbers without having to determine color. Also I think all test kits are probably fine but the biggest factor is yourself. What I mean is to do the test the same way everytime. Use a syringe to measure water samples, timers and etc. if you eyeball the water on a line of a test vile for example it may be different each test.

Small tanks are harder in my opinion because a little swing in parameters makes a bigger impact. Salinity is a great example. My tank evaporates nearly a gallon of water each day. That amount of evaporation does not make as big of an impact in my tank as it would a nano.

Lastly, If you don’t quarantine or buy quarantined fish, a disease can pop up pretty quickly at times. Brook and velvet for example can deteriorate a fish pretty fast. So your clown may have passed from a disease and not necessarily the tank.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Their recommendation was to add buffer they sold me

Based on this alone, I recommend finding a new LFS (or at least not buying anything from them until you've determined you ACTUALLY need it...)

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

50% water change done and protein skimmer installed. Hopefully that'll help things. I'll test again tomorrow. Also bought some leaf guard mesh from Lowe's to make a DIY fish guard on the intake so the next baby doesn't get sucked in.

DO. NOT. ADD. PRIME.
The only legitimate use for Prime is to dechlorinate tap water.
It will not do anything to lower or 'detoxify' ammonia (I know, I know, "but it says it on the bottle!"...) but WILL interfere with your next ammonia tests, making the result useless.

There are several threads on R2R that go into great detail and show that Prime does not do what it states re: nitrogen.

Water changes are best for reducing most things in the tank, especially when it's new.

Good luck

 

[PhilTheFish]

First, I like and have used fritz turbo start 900 and if that’s what you used in the correct dosage, I think your tank was fine to add fish.

What kind of test kit are you using? API is notorious for showing ammonia. Almost all the test kits rely on color matching and that can be hard to determine for a lot of people myself included. Hannah is more expensive but shows the numbers without having to determine color. Also I think all test kits are probably fine but the biggest factor is yourself. What I mean is to do the test the same way everytime. Use a syringe to measure water samples, timers and etc. if you eyeball the water on a line of a test vile for example it may be different each test.

Small tanks are harder in my opinion because a little swing in parameters makes a bigger impact. Salinity is a great example. My tank evaporates nearly a gallon of water each day. That amount of evaporation does not make as big of an impact in my tank as it would a nano.

Lastly, If you don’t quarantine or buy quarantined fish, a disease can pop up pretty quickly at times. Brook and velvet for example can deteriorate a fish pretty fast. So your clown may have passed from a disease and not necessarily the tank.

First, I like and have used fritz turbo start 900 and if that’s what you used in the correct dosage, I think your tank was fine to add fish.

What kind of test kit are you using? API is notorious for showing ammonia. Almost all the test kits rely on color matching and that can be hard to determine for a lot of people myself included. Hannah is more expensive but shows the numbers without having to determine color. Also I think all test kits are probably fine but the biggest factor is yourself. What I mean is to do the test the same way everytime. Use a syringe to measure water samples, timers and etc. if you eyeball the water on a line of a test vile for example it may be different each test.

Small tanks are harder in my opinion because a little swing in parameters makes a bigger impact. Salinity is a great example. My tank evaporates nearly a gallon of water each day. That amount of evaporation does not make as big of an impact in my tank as it would a nano.

Lastly, If you don’t quarantine or buy quarantined fish, a disease can pop up pretty quickly at times. Brook and velvet for example can deteriorate a fish pretty fast. So your clown may have passed from a disease and not necessarily the tank.

Thank you for the reply!

I am using a Sera test kit. I've used API with freshwater setups and I know exactly what you mean about color matching issues. I've also read plenty of negative things about API on here which is why I decided to go with a different brand for my marine tank. The Sera kit has very distinguishable colors but it does jump from 0 to .50 with nothing in between. So I guess it could have gone down some but it looks like .50 to me. Also agreed on consistency of testing. I have a medical grade pipette I use that let's you dial in exact measurements to prevent error on that end and I always use a timer. I'm a bit anal about these tests. LOL.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thank you for the reply!

I am using a Sera test kit. I've used API with freshwater setups and I know exactly what you mean about color matching issues. I've also read plenty of negative things about API on here which is why I decided to go with a different brand for my marine tank. The Sera kit has very distinguishable colors but it does jump from 0 to .50 with nothing in between. So I guess it could have gone down some but it looks like .50 to me. Also agreed on consistency of testing. I have a medical grade pipette I use that let's you dial in exact measurements to prevent error on that end and I always use a timer. I'm a bit anal about these tests. LOL.

The issue with many ammonia tests is that they measure total ammonia, not just free ammonia. Also a reading on a less precise test like API or Sera (larger ranges) can leave you wondering where exactly the true value is.

 

[PhilTheFish]

Based on this alone, I recommend finding a new LFS (or at least not buying anything from them until you've determined you ACTUALLY need it...)

I haven't added the buffer yet because I have no idea what it is or what is does. Measuring KH is new to me and I need to do research. They said my KH was 8 and I did the KH test for myself today with my Sera kit and I also got 8. I have no idea what that means yet but there you go. Haha!

And thanks for the reply about Prime. I started reading some threads on Prime immediately after I posted and saw all the negative posts and threads.

I was reading up on dosing again with Turbostart. Would that be a good option or should I just leave everything alone and stop worrying about all this while the tank is cycling?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I haven't added the buffer yet because I have no idea what it is or what is does. Measuring KH is new to me and I need to do research. They said my KH was 8 and I did the KH test for myself today with my Sera kit and I also got 8. I have no idea what that means yet but there you go. Haha!

And thanks for the reply about Prime. I started reading some threads on Prime immediately after I posted and saw all the negative posts and threads.

I was reading up on dosing again with Turbostart. Would that be a good option or should I just leave everything alone and stop worrying about all this while the tank is cycling?

Adding more turbo start certainly won't hurt anything. If you didn't have fish in jeopardy I would say just wait for the bacteria to build up on their own... Since you added fish too soon, you want to do what you can to make sure they aren't injured.

As for KH, there's really no reason to test in a new tank, especially when you don't have any hard coral. A tank as small as yours will likely not need dosing regardless as long as you're doing regular water changes. Your current level of 8 is actually fine even WITH coral. Your LFS took advantage of you being new to the hobby and sold you a product you don't (and may never) need. I'd return it if possible.

 

[mrpontiac80]

I agree that 8 kh isfine. Mine is currently 7.7 but I prefer it to be over 8 in my big mixed reef tank.

I also agree that if all you have are fish, you really do t even need to worry much about mag, cal, and such. I have a bubbletip nem tank with 5 fish and rarely test anything ( not recommended). But I do perform waterchanges and maintenance such as that. Point is, people try to maintain stability of major elements when growing coral. If you have a nano and perform regular water changes, the salt mix should maintain the elements unless you have coral or etc using up more than what a water change can replenish.