Water changes.

[Coreys reef adventure]

Okay guys, and gals, here’s the thing. I get a TON of mixed reviews about water changes. Talked to the guy at my lfs he said he never does water changes unless he has something way off in his tanks. I’ve talked with other casual reefers they say they do 10% a week/20% every two weeks. Nutrients in is nutrients out? I’m trying to decided fact from fiction. I took a video recording of my levels.. I’m just curious what everybody else is doing.

 

[andrewey]

There is no one answer. Some people have thriving reefs with water changes and some have thriving reefs without water changes.

That being said, it's much, much harder for the average new reefer to succeed without water changes than with water changes. For that reason, I would never suggest a new reefer not perform water changes consistently. It's just setting up the average new reefer for failure and even though it may not seem like it, it's what I would call an "advanced" technique. For new reefers, I want them to succeed and that often involves using tried and true methods. Once they've achieved success, they can start playing around with methods that may or may not work, but they'll have the experience to know what is "normal" and what isn't and know how to make corrections.

 

[Coreys reef adventure]

There is no one answer. Some people have thriving reefs with water changes and some have thriving reefs without water changes.

That being said, it's much, much harder for the average new reefer to succeed without water changes than with water changes. For that reason, I would never suggest a new reefer not perform water changes consistently. It's just setting up the average new reefer for failure and even though it may not seem like it, it's what I would call an "advanced" technique. For new reefers, I want them to succeed and that often involves using tried and true methods. Once they've achieved success, they can start playing around with methods that may or may not work, but they'll have the experience to know what is "normal" and what isn't and know how to make corrections.

Sweet, now since you kind of hit the nail on the head, say I do my weekly water changes, start getting great growth. Is it bad to go to no water changes?

 

[andrewey]

Unfortunately, it's impossible to say without testing your specific tank and its own very unique ecosystem. Water changes perform a variety of functions- for example maybe the water changes were integral to a tank's nutrient export and now your nitrate or phosphate levels are increasing- this could affect growth. Similarly, those water changes replenish calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity as well as a variety of trace elements. If the coral requires any of these to grow, then the lack of water changes and subsequent depletion of certain elements could stunt growth.

Therefore, it's absolutely possible that growth could be affected. There are ways people that don't perform water changes get around this (e.g. by dosing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, using other methods of nutrient export, etc.) Other systems rely on measuring specific elements and dosing these based on consumption. Some reefers that don't dose are still successful by growing corals that are more forgiving or require less calcium or alkalinity to build their skeleton.

This is why most reefers that don't perform water changes must be aware of these concerns and take steps to mitigate them. This involves a certain level of knowledge and experience in being able to "read the tank" to understand if discontinuing water changes is having negative consequences on their tank.

 

[X-37B]

You need to research and have an understanding of reef chemistry before you tackle no scheduled water changes.
You also, imo, need at least a year or 2 dosing and maintaining a system.
This will give you time to see if you want to attempt it.
Here is my 120 at startup and at 11 months with no scheduled water changes.
All corals are from my 2.5 year old 25 gal nano and frags.
I ran the nano for the last 1.5 years with no scheduled water changes after doing a 3 gallon water change a week for over a year.

 

[Coreys reef adventure]

You need to research and have an understanding of reef chemistry before you tackle no scheduled water changes.
You also, imo, need at least a year or 2 dosing and maintaining a system.
This will give you time to see if you want to attempt it.
Here is my 120 at startup and at 11 months with no scheduled water changes.
All corals are from my 2.5 year old 25 gal nano and frags.
I ran the nano for the last 1.5 years with no scheduled water changes after doing a 3 gallon water change a week for over a year.

Oh wow those are/going to be beautiful. I guess I have more research to do

 

[Coreys reef adventure]

Unfortunately, it's impossible to say without testing your specific tank and its own very unique ecosystem. Water changes perform a variety of functions- for example maybe the water changes were integral to a tank's nutrient export and now your nitrate or phosphate levels are increasing- this could affect growth. Similarly, those water changes replenish calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity as well as a variety of trace elements. If the coral requires any of these to grow, then the lack of water changes and subsequent depletion of certain elements could stunt growth.

Therefore, it's absolutely possible that growth could be affected. There are ways people that don't perform water changes get around this (e.g. by dosing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, using other methods of nutrient export, etc.) Other systems rely on measuring specific elements and dosing these based on consumption. Some reefers that don't dose are still successful by growing corals that are more forgiving or require less calcium or alkalinity to build their skeleton.

This is why most reefers that don't perform water changes must be aware of these concerns and take steps to mitigate them. This involves a certain level of knowledge and experience in being able to "read the tank" to understand if discontinuing water changes is having negative consequences on their tank.

I guess it’s just one of those things to you have to figure out on your own huh?

 

[andrewey]

Yup! There are a ton of tried and true methods that seem to work for most reefers, but once you get away from these techniques, it really is that no two boxes of water are the same.

 

[Auquanut]

I couldn't possibly expand on the excellent comments from @andrewey. As your tank matures and you mature as a hobbyist, you'll be better equipped to determine the specific needs of your tank. Until then, I feel the best course of action is to maintain a regular water change schedule that your tank can adapt to.

 

[FortyFour44]

Water changes. While there are outliers, the probability of success is much, much higher.

 

[X-37B]

Water changes. While there are outliers, the probability of success is much, much higher.

With new reefer yes always recommend.
With seasoned reefers its just another way to run a reef.
Their are many outliers as you call them with very successful systems.
Not the norm but its being done more and more now.

 

[jda]

The experienced people who have limited water change tanks often work harder and spend more to do the same thing - Dutch Synthetic, for example. Those who are cavalier and just say "screw it" usually will not last long.

Not changing much water with a lot of experience and a plan can work. Not changing water out of laziness or pure stubborneness will not lead to good results. You have to separate the two when reading about stuff.

Remember that probably nothing is more effective and cheaper than changing water. $40-45 for a 200g box of IO is as cheap as it gets. It also is probably among the easiest. I change water since it is cheap and easy... then I can just run by CaRx and call it good without worrying about any traces.

Nobody that succeeds never changes any water. They are all open to it if it needs it, they dose meds or to refill what they remove in the skimmer cup. Limited water change is a better way of stating it.

Bottom line is that for limited water change to work well, it will usually take more work, more planning and more money to succeed in the long term. It is certainly doable.

 

[jda]

I forgot, sorry... you also need to probably be around the hobby a while until you can see the difference in the tanks. There are some differences. When I see a very limited water changes acropora tank, I see some of the more delicate species missing along side the massive colonies of stuff that is not so delicate - these people, wether they are aware or not, have just let the more sensitive stuff die. You can see this with softies and LPS too.

I mostly keep acropora, but I also keep some higher value softies (think, harder to grow which is why their value stays up). The Z&P will start to melt if I got more than 4-6 months without changing water or doing some very in-depth trace element replenishment. The bounces grow MUCH faster with regular water changes too, and mostly sit stagnant without, but they do not die.

Now, most people would just let these die and chalk it up to dumb luck, but the truth is that while most of their other stuff is fine with limited water changes, some things are not. So while they show you tanks full of stuff that does not care, there is a silent minority that already died in their systems or otherwise has not thrived.

You will need to be around and have some experience to know how to see what you are not seeing. Again, you do not have to change water, but you have to have a plan and work hard to replenish traces and do other things.

 

[TripleTruble]

Basic is for a new tank/reefer a simple water change is very simple and easy way to replace the nutrients that get used. If you than down the road want to go no water changes you have to research and know what your going to have to dose to keep the nutrients in check. As a new reefer hands on your tank is much more enjoyable and learning experience

 

[X-37B]

The experienced people who have limited water change tanks often work harder and spend more to do the same thing - Dutch Synthetic, for example. Those who are cavalier and just say "screw it" usually will not last long.

Not changing much water with a lot of experience and a plan can work. Not changing water out of laziness or pure stubborneness will not lead to good results. You have to separate the two when reading about stuff.

Remember that probably nothing is more effective and cheaper than changing water. $40-45 for a 200g box of IO is as cheap as it gets. It also is probably among the easiest. I change water since it is cheap and easy... then I can just run by CaRx and call it good without worrying about any traces.

Nobody that succeeds never changes any water. They are all open to it if it needs it, they dose meds or to refill what they remove in the skimmer cup. Limited water change is a better way of stating it.

Bottom line is that for limited water change to work well, it will usually take more work, more planning and more money to succeed in the long term. It is certainly doable.

Mostly agree. I follow the DSR system but use a carx and the EZ method. Its a hybrid but it does not require more work or money, at least not for me.
I dont have access to the high end corals as I only buy local. May get me a battle box now that my frag system is been up for 5 months now.
I have lost one acro to stn. No idea why as all others are fine. Lost another to the urchin uprooting it and it disappeared lol.
I call mine, a no scheduled water change system, which is more real world.
I went this route to see if it works long term.
If I need a water change I am setup to do one.
My next upgrade will be 3x my 120 system and will employ a similar approach but I plan on 3 gal a day AWC system as I am making room for it for down the road.
So I guess it will be a continuous small water change system.
I did not have the room do do AWC on my current system and wanted to see the results of said, no scheduled water changes.

 

[Scorpius]

It's a closed ecosystem. Water changes are needed. I'll never not do water changes. I don't care what additives you add or how many ICP tests you spend $$$$ on that tells you to add 2.5ml of this and remove .0005ppb of that.