Water parameters for SPS

[andrecr]

Hello!


Recently I started putting some SPS in my tank and I always got the following numbers as a standard for keeping SPS

Alk 8-10 Po4-0.03 - 0.05 Calcium -400- 450 and Magnesium 1300-1500


Recently I talked about parameters with a fellow reefer and LFS owner, who said to me that if the Acros and other sps can't calcify their skeleton when the de Kh is so high and Po4 is so low


Is this true?

 

[unchaotic]

Not an expert but that doesn't sound right to me. Seems like a lot of SPS people shoot for high Alk. Higher phosphates also supposedly stunt growth but I've heard mixed reviews on what is "too high".

 

[andrecr]

Not an expert but that doesn't sound right to me. Seems like a lot of SPS people shoot for high Alk. Higher phosphates also supposedly stunt growth but I've heard mixed reviews on what is "too high".

I agree, for what I've seen and read I always considered an higher alk would be best for coral grow

 

[Yazannreef]

Depends on how high. If you keep it under 10dkh without much swing and pH around 8.4 that's what I would call high!

Assuming your no3 is between 5 and 10pmm and ph4 0.02 to 0.04.

Let's not forget that temp/salinity should be consistent as well.

In high dkh levels the corals reproduction is high thus the grow rate but at the same time you don't want it too high 12dkh for example where the corals tissue can't keep up with the amount of nutrients taken therefore zozenthalee starts expelling from the coral thus the pale look phase.

 

[andrecr]

Depends on how high. If you keep it under 10dkh without much swing and pH around 8.4 that's what I would call high!

Assuming your no3 is between 5 and 10pmm and ph4 0.02 to 0.04.

Let's not forget that temp/salinity should be consistent as well.

In high dkh levels the corals reproduction is high thus the grow rate but at the same time you don't want it too high 12dkh for example where the corals tissue can't keep up with the amount of nutrients taken therefore zozenthalee starts expelling from the coral thus the pale look phase.

Usually ph is between 8,15 -8,30 Kh around 8 - 8,5 phosphate 0,05 - 0,010 and Nitrate 3-5

 

[Yazannreef]

Usually ph is between 8,15 -8,30 Kh around 8 - 8,5 phosphate 0,05 - 0,010 and Nitrate 3-5

You are right where you need to be as long as you keep it steady, your SPS will grow no problem.

 

[shadow1013]

These are values from two of the top online stores.

Top Shelf
7-9 alk
400-450 cal
12-20 nitrate (high)
0.05 - 0.1 phoshate


WWC
8.6 - 9 alk
450-470 cal
1350-1450 mag

 

[Yazannreef]

These are values from two of the top online stores.

Top Shelf
7-9 alk
400-450 cal
12-20 nitrate (high)
0.05 - 0.1 phoshate


WWC
8.6 - 9 alk
450-470 cal
1350-1450 mag

You can see from the examples above that there are no set numbers to chase. As long as you keep them in consistent numbers that should get the job done. SpS in particular need that stability! Overtime you will see your SPS start taking off but you got to be patient. A lot of us get a small frag and hope to grow it out fast but the coral has to establish it self in your system before starting to grow. When you start seeing the sps base starts covering the frag plug that when you know you are going on the right direction.

Stability and patience are the 2 main ingredient for success!!

 

[Rmckoy]

Hello!


Recently I started putting some SPS in my tank and I always got the following numbers as a standard for keeping SPS

Alk 8-10 Po4-0.03 - 0.05 Calcium -400- 450 and Magnesium 1300-1500


Recently I talked about parameters with a fellow reefer and LFS owner, who said to me that if the Acros and other sps can't calcify their skeleton when the de Kh is so high and Po4 is so low


Is this true?

Yes …

they grow skeleton faster than they have nutrients to grow flesh .

 

[Harriswill1987]

So, my opinion on this, along with my company is there is a fine line of right parameters with SPS and getting the best coloration and best growth. These are two different numbers.

The OP is correct, some will say that you cannot have great growth with low phosphates and high alk and this is true. You will run out of nutrients to feed the flesh and provide carbohydrates to get the coral growing at a need rate. They will not be able to process the calcite foundation elements as they have run out of energy after consuming all of the nutrients available to them. A lot of people will have mixed reviews on this. IF they have mixed reviews lets then talk about what they are spot feeding or broadcast feeding. If you use a coral food and direct feed then you will have the required carbs to process everything. Are you dosing carbs proteins, aminos are anything like that to aid in that production?

Now to counter what I just said about the OP post. A lot of the coral farmers like Top Shelf, living reef, and WWC do run a medium Alk level around 8-9 however, they run a higher nutrient level. This gives the corals a lot of nutrients that they need to have the energy to calcify their structures along with provide food for the tissue. Now running like this will provide extreme growth, however the bad note to this is your corals will loose most of their bright intense colors that you see. Great growth but not the best color.

Once you get the growth you want you will see some growers, frag up their corals and then after a week or two of recovery of the frag they will then move them to another tank to brighten up the colors. This tank has a lower Alk Level around 7-8 and a low nutrient level with really high par. The reason for the high par is to get the zooxanthellae to start reproducing at a high rate, which starts producing extreme colors. So, lets target feed, increase carbs and aminos, and get all of our colors back to being vibrant and amazing looking. Get the flesh big, puffy brightly colored and looking amazing.

So the best of both worlds is running a SPS tank on a mixed tank level, especially if you have other corals. 8-9dkh 400-430 calcium 1350-1410 mag ph 8.15-8.3 phos .05 - .12, Nitrates around 10-15. A lot of people will argue this as everyone has an opinion. My opinion and what we run in our Mixed salts with the addition of our Amino acid/carbohydrate/protein/vitamin/and fatty acid blend along with our high nitrogen food to entice the extra energy the corals need to be able to calcify. These levels are used by most of the aquarist in the industry who keep SPS in their display tanks.

One of the things I would recommend to the OP here is figure out what you are after with your SPS and the rest of the inhabitants in your tank and lets get you to what levels is going to work best for your entire collection of corals.

 

[shadow1013]

I also think if you can keep your pH in the 8’s and stable that will help more than higher alk.

 

[j0359m]

So, my opinion on this, along with my company is there is a fine line of right parameters with SPS and getting the best coloration and best growth. These are two different numbers.

The OP is correct, some will say that you cannot have great growth with low phosphates and high alk and this is true. You will run out of nutrients to feed the flesh and provide carbohydrates to get the coral growing at a need rate. They will not be able to process the calcite foundation elements as they have run out of energy after consuming all of the nutrients available to them. A lot of people will have mixed reviews on this. IF they have mixed reviews lets then talk about what they are spot feeding or broadcast feeding. If you use a coral food and direct feed then you will have the required carbs to process everything. Are you dosing carbs proteins, aminos are anything like that to aid in that production?

Now to counter what I just said about the OP post. A lot of the coral farmers like Top Shelf, living reef, and WWC do run a medium Alk level around 8-9 however, they run a higher nutrient level. This gives the corals a lot of nutrients that they need to have the energy to calcify their structures along with provide food for the tissue. Now running like this will provide extreme growth, however the bad note to this is your corals will loose most of their bright intense colors that you see. Great growth but not the best color.

Once you get the growth you want you will see some growers, frag up their corals and then after a week or two of recovery of the frag they will then move them to another tank to brighten up the colors. This tank has a lower Alk Level around 7-8 and a low nutrient level with really high par. The reason for the high par is to get the zooxanthellae to start reproducing at a high rate, which starts producing extreme colors. So, lets target feed, increase carbs and aminos, and get all of our colors back to being vibrant and amazing looking. Get the flesh big, puffy brightly colored and looking amazing.

So the best of both worlds is running a SPS tank on a mixed tank level, especially if you have other corals. 8-9dkh 400-430 calcium 1350-1410 mag ph 8.15-8.3 phos .05 - .12, Nitrates around 10-15. A lot of people will argue this as everyone has an opinion. My opinion and what we run in our Mixed salts with the addition of our Amino acid/carbohydrate/protein/vitamin/and fatty acid blend along with our high nitrogen food to entice the extra energy the corals need to be able to calcify. These levels are used by most of the aquarist in the industry who keep SPS in their display tanks.

One of the things I would recommend to the OP here is figure out what you are after with your SPS and the rest of the inhabitants in your tank and lets get you to what levels is going to work best for your entire collection of corals.

this is the most logical explanation I have read & I am experiencing exactly that, faster growth then what the coral can produce flesh for

 

[Harriswill1987]

this is the most logical explanation I have read & I am experiencing exactly that, faster growth then what the coral can produce flesh for

Then i would recommend dosing some sort of nitrogen coral food or increase your amino blend but mainly increase your carbs or fatty acids for your SPS! There is a few good products out there for this!

 

[Hans-Werner]

Phosphate does not only go into the living tissue but it seems to be an important component of the organic matrix initiating the calcification of the skeleton. Especially in SPS a good proportion of the phosphate does not go into the living tissue but into the skeleton.

If the ratio of phosphate and KH is not balanced, especially when KH is high and phosphate is low, this stresses corals and the polyps contract. With contracted polyps a high KH will rather slow down coral growth than increase it.

The alkalinity of natural seawater is just 6.5 at 35 PSU salinity and for most reef tanks 6 to 8 KH alkalinity will work well. Phosphate concetrations between 0.05 and 0.15 ppm usually are sufficient for good coral growth. With less phosphate also growth will slow down.

Iodine also seems to get incorporated into all coral skeletons (not only in the skeletons of gorgonians) and a sufficient iodine supply (ca. 60 µg/l) also is important.

 

[nbrady]

So, my opinion on this, along with my company is there is a fine line of right parameters with SPS and getting the best coloration and best growth. These are two different numbers.

The OP is correct, some will say that you cannot have great growth with low phosphates and high alk and this is true. You will run out of nutrients to feed the flesh and provide carbohydrates to get the coral growing at a need rate. They will not be able to process the calcite foundation elements as they have run out of energy after consuming all of the nutrients available to them. A lot of people will have mixed reviews on this. IF they have mixed reviews lets then talk about what they are spot feeding or broadcast feeding. If you use a coral food and direct feed then you will have the required carbs to process everything. Are you dosing carbs proteins, aminos are anything like that to aid in that production?

Now to counter what I just said about the OP post. A lot of the coral farmers like Top Shelf, living reef, and WWC do run a medium Alk level around 8-9 however, they run a higher nutrient level. This gives the corals a lot of nutrients that they need to have the energy to calcify their structures along with provide food for the tissue. Now running like this will provide extreme growth, however the bad note to this is your corals will loose most of their bright intense colors that you see. Great growth but not the best color.

Once you get the growth you want you will see some growers, frag up their corals and then after a week or two of recovery of the frag they will then move them to another tank to brighten up the colors. This tank has a lower Alk Level around 7-8 and a low nutrient level with really high par. The reason for the high par is to get the zooxanthellae to start reproducing at a high rate, which starts producing extreme colors. So, lets target feed, increase carbs and aminos, and get all of our colors back to being vibrant and amazing looking. Get the flesh big, puffy brightly colored and looking amazing.

So the best of both worlds is running a SPS tank on a mixed tank level, especially if you have other corals. 8-9dkh 400-430 calcium 1350-1410 mag ph 8.15-8.3 phos .05 - .12, Nitrates around 10-15. A lot of people will argue this as everyone has an opinion. My opinion and what we run in our Mixed salts with the addition of our Amino acid/carbohydrate/protein/vitamin/and fatty acid blend along with our high nitrogen food to entice the extra energy the corals need to be able to calcify. These levels are used by most of the aquarist in the industry who keep SPS in their display tanks.

One of the things I would recommend to the OP here is figure out what you are after with your SPS and the rest of the inhabitants in your tank and lets get you to what levels is going to work best for your entire collection of corals.

Following thread thanks for the explanation

 

[ClownSchool]

Not an expert but that doesn't sound right to me. Seems like a lot of SPS people shoot for high Alk. Higher phosphates also supposedly stunt growth but I've heard mixed reviews on what is "too high".

I’ve heard if phosphates are above 5 ppm, metabolizing calcium slows…

 

[ClownSchool]

I’ve heard if phosphates are above 5 ppm, metabolizing calcium slows…

You are right where you need to be as long as you keep it steady, your SPS will grow no problem.

My parameters are:
Phosphates 8 ppm
Calcium is 530
Alkalinity is 10.5
pH 8
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0

…but, I am on my 5th day dosing for dinos with Dr. Tim’s Waste-away first three-days during blackout, second day dosing Dr. Tim’s Refresh, so I don’t know if that matters.
I usually dose AllForReef crystals self-mixed, 15 ml in a 55 gallon system and 5 ml of white vinegar.

 

[Yazannreef]

My parameters are:
Phosphates 8 ppm
Calcium is 530
Alkalinity is 10.5
pH 8
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0

…but, I am on my 5th day dosing for dinos with Dr. Tim’s Waste-away first three-days during blackout, second day dosing Dr. Tim’s Refresh, so I don’t know if that matters.
I usually dose AllForReef crystals self-mixed, 15 ml in a 55 gallon system and 5 ml of white vinegar.

Hold on. Your phosphate is 8ppm?? I hope that's a typo cuz that's way too high

 

[Yazannreef]

I think you are dosing to much things you shouldn't. How old is your tank and what kind of life does it host?

 

[Harriswill1987]

My parameters are:
Phosphates 8 ppm
Calcium is 530
Alkalinity is 10.5
pH 8
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0

…but, I am on my 5th day dosing for dinos with Dr. Tim’s Waste-away first three-days during blackout, second day dosing Dr. Tim’s Refresh, so I don’t know if that matters.
I usually dose AllForReef crystals self-mixed, 15 ml in a 55 gallon system and 5 ml of white vinegar.

You need to retest your nitrates or do you have a major algae issue? I would start dosing something to remove the phosphates. Start with something with pure pharmaceutical lanthanum chloride to help quickly drop them down. Using a pure lanthanum you wont need much in the way of nitrates to lower the phosphates. But more than likely the reason you have dinos is an imbalance in your nutrients. This happens a lot with people using sulfate reactors or bio pellet reactors. If you want some product recommendations let me know and I can help you out. If you need anymore clarification please let me know!