We Need A Library Of Standard Advice At The Click Of A Button

[Doctorgori]

Also searching fails over time as knowledge changes. I am a software engineer working with technologies that have been around for 30+ years and any mildly difficult problem will inevitably lead me to stackoverflow, where I can either dig through answers from 15 years ago and hope they are still relevant, or get my question closed as duplicate even though the question it's a duplicate of is explicitly for a version of the products that are no longer relevant.

Letting people ask again in theory keeps the answers 'current'.

yes, and I think a few of us get torn starting threads …I posted on the disease forum fulling knowing there is a sticky with. most of the info I needed, but sometimes you gotta vent ….
OTOH admittedly I might avoid (or not) the same ole ubiquitous threads:
which salt is better,
which. light is better
why is my fake tank with fake rock failing
Sand or bare bottom
et et et

 

[blecki]

Clearly the more expensive light is better.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I once made a post that people should research threads before posting to limit the amount of duplicate threads. I was quickly shot down and booed.

The number of times I've almost gone to "let me google that for you" and then submitted that as my response...

 

[Kathy Floyd]

I thought about a header for each category listing the parameters needed before posting.
However with that being said, don't we want new reefers to learn and the older reefers to teach?
Don't forget where and how you all started.

Did you know "how to ask and post correctly"

I learned a lot more from a lot of people, most from here so if someone has the same repeated question, I will take the time to answer with the same repeated answer.

Isn't that how people learn and then are able to help the next person?.

 

[Reefer Matt]

The number of times I've almost gone to "let me google that for you" and then submitted that as my response...

I have googled a lot of answers myself. I also provide the link.

 

[GARRIGA]

Here's a twist. Although often it's been answered before there's the possibility the hobby has advanced and new thoughts and theories challenge that said before. Unless past stickies get updated then solely relying on them might keep some stuck on old ways.

Not long ago zero nitrates was the holy grail. Imagine all answers stopped with "yes that's how you should". Granted that's still my mantra yet I overfeed but that's not how all will proceed.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Here's a twist. Although often it's been answered before there's the possibility the hobby has advanced and new thoughts and theories challenge that said before. Unless past stickies get updated then solely relying on them might keep some stuck on old ways.

Not long ago zero nitrates was the holy grail. Imaging all answers stopped with "yes that's how you should". Granted that's still my mantra yet I overfeed but that's not how all will proceed.

100% agree, there are a lot of understandings that shift and studies that come out where we learn more about what's needed. And we have all heard the phrase at some point "there's no one right way but there are a lot of wrong ones".

My only frustration sometimes is when it seems someone hasn't used google or R2R's search bar before posting the question - or better yet, look at all the suggested "is your post like these" suggestions that come up when you're making your thread.

I will still answer kindly, and I always want to help, but there is this split second of like "the search bar is right there".

 

[jda]

Most of the discussions on FishBase or Wet Web Media still apply today. In fact, most of them are still spot-on and it is the interpretation that has led people astray. Chemistry and biology have not changed in our lifetimes. There was wrong stuff posted back then just like there is now, but people have made strawmen out of some of it and convinced many that somehow the world has changed.

The post a few above is a good example. Nobody smart ever said that you need to have zero nitrates - they said that undetectable on the test kits that we had were fine. This was about 1 or 3 ppm, which is the same type of range that many on this board suggest today - chemistry forum. People recall the strawman and not the actual advice in a lowest-common denominator type of deal.

This is why it takes humans to actually point out where the differences matter. One of the more common things that people post is that "every tank is different" which also means that every question is different.

For me, I like the chemistry library that is available since chemistry is pretty static. Still, people seem amazed when you point out that it is there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One of the more common things that people post is that "every tank is different" which also means that every question is different.

I used you (and Thales and Hans-Werner)and that idea in a discussion today of how complicated some seemingly simple questions really are, not only because tanks may vary in ways not part of the question or answer, but also because the rationale for one person's answer may be entirely different than the rationale for a second person's answer to the same question.

 

[jda]

I used you (and Thales and Hans-Werner)and that idea in a discussion today of how complicated some seemingly simple questions really are, not only because tanks may vary in ways not part of the question or answer, but also because the rationale for one person's answer may be entirely different than the rationale for a second person's answer to the same question.

I mostly think that the differences are in what is being kept. Not all SPS act the same. Not all softies are the same. Not all inverts are the same ...etc. No one-size-fit-all answer helps much, IMO. The nuance is missing.

People are successful with one type of a coral can think that they all act like this, but this is not even close to being true. One example is montipora digitata where most of it is REALLY easy for a SPS, but there are a few different kinds that are quite hard and will brown out, lose their color and get really brittle with higher po4 levels. On the opposite side, most smooth skin acropora are harder than other types of acropora but there are a few (ORA varieties, for example) that are quite easy to keep and can thrive in a large range of conditions. I have some softies are are REALLY hard and require ocean-level water parameters not to melt - White Walker Zoanthids over time, for me.

Temperature will really slow down some species of snails while others don't mind - margaritas and Mexican turbos can stop eating algae and die fast over 78 degrees, for example. People see their other snails eating algae still and can assume that the margaritas don't like a certain type of algae and can lump all in together as snails.

IMO, it takes humans with experience to help each of these unique cases. It requires a lot of experience too.

 

[blecki]

All that and some of us still run ULNS quite successfully.

 

[Dan_P]

OTOH admittedly I might avoid (or not) the same ole ubiquitous threads:
which salt is better,
which. light is better
why is my fake tank with fake rock failing
Sand or bare bottom
et et et

These topics can be a bit like the little boy dragging a stick along a picket fence behind which lives a dog.

 

[Dan_P]

I thought about a header for each category listing the parameters needed before posting.
However with that being said, don't we want new reefers to learn and the older reefers to teach?
Don't forget where and how you all started.

Did you know "how to ask and post correctly"

I learned a lot more from a lot of people, most from here so if someone has the same repeated question, I will take the time to answer with the same repeated answer.

Isn't that how people learn and then are able to help the next person?.

Great observations.

Learning can be a messy and frustrating process. Folks learn best through different means, reading v videos v just doing it v never reading instructions. I was thinking that when I help someone with a straightforward question that has been answered a zillion times, I need a button to click on to dump the information onto my reply.

With a nod to “Google the darn question” answer, teaching someone how to learn is a much greater gift than helping them by giving them the answer.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I once made a post that people should research threads before posting to limit the amount of duplicate threads. I was quickly shot down and booed.

Ditto

 

[Dan_P]

Here's a twist. Although often it's been answered before there's the possibility the hobby has advanced and new thoughts and theories challenge that said before. Unless past stickies get updated then solely relying on them might keep some stuck on old ways.

Not long ago zero nitrates was the holy grail. Imaging all answers stopped with "yes that's how you should". Granted that's still my mantra yet I overfeed but that's not how all will proceed.

Great point.

When I get my button to click for an information dump into my reply, I not only want vetted information but up to date information.

 

[Dan_P]

100% agree, there are a lot of understandings that shift and studies that come out where we learn more about what's needed. And we have all heard the phrase at some point "there's no one right way but there are a lot of wrong ones".

My only frustration sometimes is when it seems someone hasn't used google or R2R's search bar before posting the question - or better yet, look at all the suggested "is your post like these" suggestions that come up when you're making your thread.

I will still answer kindly, and I always want to help, but there is this split second of like "the search bar is right there".

 

[Dan_P]

One of the more common things that people post is that "every tank is different" which also means that every question is different.

I have a fun wacko idea.

Every aquarist is different but aquaria are mostly the same. Our job in helping folks is to see the real aquarium and its issue through the observations and story telling of these very different aquarists. Our situation is not unlike diagnosing a disease only with the observations of the patient. Tough, right?

 

[Dan_P]

I used you (and Thales and Hans-Werner)and that idea in a discussion today of how complicated some seemingly simple questions really are, not only because tanks may vary in ways not part of the question or answer, but also because the rationale for one person's answer may be entirely different than the rationale for a second person's answer to the same question.

I was part of a team that performed investigations of chemical pilot and manufacturing scale quality and safety incidents. I arrived at the time when there was a transition in the investigation process from investigations being performed by a couple experts deciding what happened and how to fix it to a multidisciplinary team using a rigorous process to arrive at what happened and how to fix it. Your observations above sound like the early days in incident investigation. The investigations were quick and simple, the experts decreeing what the reality was in no time, but they were prone to failure. I saw many examples where asking experts lead to fixing the same problem every few years. Asking the right questions to figure out what happened is not easy. With the right question odds of getting the same answer across many experts goes up.

 

[jda]

I have a fun wacko idea.

Every aquarist is different but aquaria are mostly the same. Our job in helping folks is to see the real aquarium and its issue through the observations and story telling of these very different aquarists. Our situation is not unlike diagnosing a disease only with the observations of the patient. Tough, right?

Yes, but it also goes beyond this. Medical professionals also have to get the patient to believe them, understand what is happening and then actually do something. We have the same issues that go well beyond diagnosis - there is stigma, dogma on top of needing to learn. In the wake of a lot of videos made to sell products, it is hard to get people to want believe us since we don't have a production staff, social media, etc... but it is important. We all saw this firsthand in the early days of Vibrant, right? where the BRS love fest and experiments had people up in arms about anybody questioning this stuff. You see other doochers acting like they are the only one who had an idea or labeling things as new ways to do things even though nothing is really new... and folks tend to want to know if there is any new tech in bacteria,

For example, I still answer the "which salt is better" threads since most of these people are confused... and rightly so. They see the sites with infomercial arms recommending one thing and then the people on message boards often saying something else. Most don't understand that the videos are often to sell products with higher margins or within the family and that the brands often recommended on here are just as good, if not better. You cannot do this with a library of past discussions - in this case, the nature of BRS videos has changed since Aperture Brands has purchased them and push their other brands harder now.

 

[MnFish1]

I think people spend too much time needing to feel coddled and important. Me me I'm important, I matter bla bla. I'm too lazy to spend anytime looking just answer my question and please give the answer I seek I don't care if it's correct or ethical.
It's a generation thing and is only going to get worse as time goes on. These are just the oppinons of a cranky old fart and have no real value

I disagree a little. As someone else has said if one is new to the forum and wants to know for example, whether to QT or not. He or she would be greeted with 1000 threads many of which contradict eachother. So every new thread with a question gets the “up to date” opinion. If people are tired of answering questions it’s easy just dont answer.