What’s in my cement?

[Be102]

Okay.. so I bought e-Marco 400 and long story short during shipment of 2 of the packages broke the pouch of the glue and I lost of it. I ended up getting another batch and all is good except now I have like 13lbs of cement and no bonding agent


I did some digging and found another reef website and people claim emarco 400 is just a combination of “Marco 400” mortar along with “acryl 60” which is a polymer that binds acrylic..

Anyways I did some more research and what I found seemed pretty similar that people mix acryl 60 at a ratio of 1 part to 3 parts water.. mix and then add to cement

which is the same instructions that e-Marco Lists!!

here’s what I found.. let me know if you think anything here is bad for the tank and if I can order the acryl and mix it with my mortar.

Marco Rocks Cement

Hey ARC, I'm getting back into the hobby, but this time I'm building out a thoroughly designed rockscape with dry rock. I'm using Marco Rocks to do it, but I feel like $40 for 5 lbs of the Marco Rocks cement seems pretty pricey for some mortar. Anyone have experience using something less expensiv...

www.austinreefclub.com

http://www.cadeco.com/productfiles/0zz_tdg.pdf

http://daviestech.com/pdf/Acryl%2060.pdf

 

[redfishbluefish]

That's it! Nice research job.

 

[Be102]

That's it! Nice research job.

Wohoo!! Now I just need Dr.Randy to confirm that I can order some of the acryl 60..

I might have just helped a lot of people save some $$! (And at least let me get more use out of my cement! )

 

[redfishbluefish]

What Marco Rock has done is to put the two ingredients into reasonable packaging sizes. Back in the day.....10 - 12 years ago....you had to buy a 25 + pound bag of hydraulic cement and I think a gallon of acrylic binder....and it was costly, especially if you only needed a couple pounds of cement and a squirt of Acryl. Marco started offering the two compounds in reasonable sizes.....and that's why for most applications, he's the one to go to. I haven't checked out Acryl 60 in years, but I've got to believe it's still readily available....and locally at your Masonry supply companies. (I know my local company, RIverside Supply, carried it) It is used in other concrete applications.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thoro acryl 60 does not clearly state what is in it (even on the SDS), but acrylic polymers are not a concern.

"THORO ACRYL 60 is a special formulation of acrylic polymers and modifiers designed for use as an additive for cement mixes and other highly-alkaline building materials. "

 

[Be102]

Thoro acryl 60 does not clearly state what is in it (even on the SDS), but acrylic polymers are not a concern.

"THORO ACRYL 60 is a special formulation of acrylic polymers and modifiers designed for use as an additive for cement mixes and other highly-alkaline building materials. "

Thank you!

 

[Jstn]

I did use these generic cement additives mixed with hydraulic cement and my rock has had zero issues and been structural for over 4 years.

 

[Be102]

I did use these generic cement additives mixed with hydraulic cement and my rock has had zero issues and been structural for over 4 years.

By additives do you mean the white mixture or the mortar itself

 

[Jstn]

By additives do you mean the white mixture or the mortar itself

I used a generic acryl 60 (from Menards) I mixed it as directed with water (4:1 or 3:1 I don’t recall) and then mixed that with hydraulic cement.

 

[Be102]

I used a generic acryl 60 (from Menards) I mixed it as directed with water (4:1 or 3:1 I don’t recall) and then mixed that with hydraulic cement.

Can you link some of your cement? Typical hydraulic cement from Home Depot?

 

[Jstn]

This I think was the cement

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-repair/akona-reg-instant-water-stop-10-lb/5581331/p-1444445322673-c-5650.htm

the agent

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-repair/akona-reg-concrete-bonding-additive-1-qt/5581320/p-1444445321383-c-5650.htm

The SDS is acrylic polymers and some surfactants (most likely from the water based polymerization)

 

[Be102]

This I think was the cement

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-repair/akona-reg-instant-water-stop-10-lb/5581331/p-1444445322673-c-5650.htm

the agent

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-repair/akona-reg-concrete-bonding-additive-1-qt/5581320/p-1444445321383-c-5650.htm

The SDS is acrylic polymers and some surfactants (most likely from the water based polymerization)

Thanks!

 

[Be102]

Does this look safe to use as I have no Menards near me?

Quikrete 1 Qt. Acrylic Fortifier 861014 - The Home Depot

Quikrete 1 Qt. Acrylic Fortifier provides increased bond strength for thin applications. This fortifier eliminates the need to "roughen up" the existing surface before applying a new application. Quikrete

www.homedepot.com

 

[Dkeller_nc]

It should be OK so long as it doesn't have mold/mildew inhibitors in it. It's not labeled as such, so those compounds probably aren't present.

However, do realize that you really must "cure" rock put together with any type of cement product, and that includes the Marco material. Curing should consist of placing the rock in circulating saltwater (preferably in the dark) for 4-6 weeks. The purpose of this is to ensure that all calcium oxide/hydroxide in the cement has been converted to calcium carbonate so that the alkalinity in your tank doesn't rise sharply. Another purpose for doing this with Marco rocks is that some of it has substantial calcium phosphate as a constituent of the limestone matrix of the rock itself. That doesn't hurt anything in the interior of the rock, but ideally you'd like to leach this phosphate off of the surface of the rock during the 4-6 weeks curing process.

 

[Be102]

It should be OK so long as it doesn't have mold/mildew inhibitors in it. It's not labeled as such, so those compounds probably aren't present.

However, do realize that you really must "cure" rock put together with any type of cement product, and that includes the Marco material. Curing should consist of placing the rock in circulating saltwater (preferably in the dark) for 4-6 weeks. The purpose of this is to ensure that all calcium oxide/hydroxide in the cement has been converted to calcium carbonate so that the alkalinity in your tank doesn't rise sharply. Another purpose for doing this with Marco rocks is that some of it has substantial calcium phosphate as a constituent of the limestone matrix of the rock itself. That doesn't hurt anything in the interior of the rock, but ideally you'd like to leach this phosphate off of the surface of the rock during the 4-6 weeks curing process.

I’maxthally using caribsea dry rock and it says it can be added to the tank with no big issues ( also read a lot of reviews)

the Marcocement also says it is safe to add directly to the tank with no leaching.. are you saying I should cure the rocks which I use the different acrylic 60 for?

I also cannot cute the rocks as they are all live and have been in my tank 3+ years:. lol

 

[bluprntguy]

I used emarco cement to attach my rocks and I didn’t cure before putting back in the tank and had zero problems. The directions on emarco say it’s not necessary to cure and that you can put back into the tank as soon as an hour.

 

[Be102]

I used emarco cement to attach my rocks and I didn’t cure before putting back in the tank and had zero problems. The directions on emarco say it’s not necessary to cure and that you can put back into the tank as soon as an hour.

Did you use it on live rock? The cement worked really well on dry rock once I stopped touching it lol.. tried to pick it up 2 days later and the rock broke before the glue!!

 

[Dkeller_nc]

All products like the Marco material are basically calcium oxide with perhaps a little sand added in to bolster the matrix shear strength. As such, some amount of dissolution of unconverted calcium oxide/hydroxide is possible. However, since you are using already-cured cement in the form of the CaribSea rock, and you're likely not using very much of the Marco product, the alkalinity contribution may be minimal. Nevertheless, since it's going into an already-established tank, it'd be wise to monitor the alkalinity of the tank water every couple of days, and cut back dosing as required. Whether or not you'll notice the difference is likely to depend on the amount of corals/coralline algae in the tank. If there's a lot of alkalinity consumption from the critters, you may not notice any contribution from the cement.

 

[Be102]

All products like the Marco material are basically calcium oxide with perhaps a little sand added in to bolster the matrix shear strength. As such, some amount of dissolution of unconverted calcium oxide/hydroxide is possible. However, since you are using already-cured cement in the form of the CaribSea rock, and you're likely not using very much of the Marco product, the alkalinity contribution may be minimal. Nevertheless, since it's going into an already-established tank, it'd be wise to monitor the alkalinity of the tank water every couple of days, and cut back dosing as required. Whether or not you'll notice the difference is likely to depend on the amount of corals/coralline algae in the tank. If there's a lot of alkalinity consumption from the critters, you may not notice any contribution from the cement.

Honestly maybe it will benefit my tank then.. I use regular instant ocean and don’t dose but want to increase my tanks alk (need to test to see where it is) but I always get coralline and then it dies then it comes back then it dies cause I do not stay on top of perimeters / barely water change..

currently have no fish just some corals and random inverts (snails and hermits)

 

[bluprntguy]

Did you use it on live rock? The cement worked really well on dry rock once I stopped touching it lol.. tried to pick it up 2 days later and the rock broke before the glue!!

I did both. I cemented the main central rock structure in my tank early. I think I wet the rocks with RODI water, but they were brand new dead rock from Marco Rocks. It went into the tank the next day. The remainder of the pieces were cemented after they were wet and in the tank for a while. Both approaches worked fine. You can keep the live rock alive my pouring tank water over it occasionally or using a spray bottle with some tank water. That doesn't affect the emarco.