What’s the old school secret to Alkalinity stability?

[b4tn]

I’m getting frustrated with keeping alkalinity stable without daily testing and adjustment. And when things do get to the point where they are stable as soon as I stop daily testing something goes out of whack and I end up with an alk swing. I’m using two part on dosers. A few months back phosphates spiked High, and alk consumption dropped driving my alkalinity way up. I stopped dosing for a couple days to let it naturally come down but birds nest and montis where not happy. I got it back stabilized and corals bounced back and where looking good. Then the outside temp went up, House AC started kicking on, and my PH dropped. Again alk consumption dropped and drive my levels high. I caught it because I was daily testing and adjust as required with no issue. Then decided to crack a window and my PH went back up and all dropped lol

All the new toys are neat and all but $1000 plus trying to keep reagents stocked is just not doable. So what’s the secret before all the toys? I would think even with calcium reactor your going to have to fight adjustments from outside factors.

 

[Cory]

Limewater and calcium reactors. Limewater is sort of self regulating because the more thats added the higher the ph raises temporarily, and corals calcify at higher ph. So it maintians it when it gets too high sort of.

 

[Ulm_nano_diybudgetreef]

I'm new to reefing and all the chemistry that it beholds... the following link somewhat demystified it for me as the title suggests. I hope it's of some help and use.

 

[rsumner]

I can agree with @Cory on this one. I ran 2-part for more than 2 years on my tank and was constantly trying to perfect my calcium and alkalinity levels fighting precipitation, dosing formulas, brands, etc. I just got a calcium reactor a few months ago and it never deviates. Now, I have to find something else to obsess about . I am struggling with lower PH after the switch (a drop in 0.3 since I'm no longer running soda ash), but I plan on adding a Kalk reactor to help with this. (supported by Cory's comment also). For now, I'm running a circulating co2 reactor on my skimmer air-intake to keep the PH from dropping into the 7.8 ranges -- it will normally keep things juuuuuuust under 8.0.

 

[vetteguy53081]

It is challenging and frustrating and no matter what you do, DO NOT chase numbers to achieve a certain number which will do more harm than good to your coral. Try rather to achieve a stable number that you can keep steady and the coral happy at the same time.
Dosing for me was the easiest method of stable readings as long as you apply correct calculation.

 

[Gablami]

There’s nothing magical about calcium reactors. If you get a good system, it consistently doses a set amount of alkalinity (amongst all the other goodies). In that sense it is just like dosing 2 part with a doser. If your alkalinity is fluctuating with a doser, then I don’t know why it wouldn’t fluctuate with a carx. You would still need to make adjustments.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

There is no "old school secret" to stable alkalinity and calcium demand. To stop demand from changing, you need to stop calcification rates from changing, which is easier said than done.

Things really shouldn't really be changing that quickly when you turn the AC on. Decreases in calcification and the following increase in alkalinity/calcium levels should happen slowly over a few days. Unless your tank has a tremendous calcium/alkalinity demand, testing every week should be enough to catch any changes before they become an emergency. If that's not enough, test every 2 - 3 days instead. Focus on trends instead of specific values and make small adjustments. Don't stop dosing if you go too high (so long as it's not off the charts) or your values will dip too low. Don't increase dosing by a significant amount if you're low or they'll go too high.

Some supplements such as calcium reactors or calcium/sodium hydroxide tend to affect pH significantly. These methods may help maintain stability long term because they make your pH trend lower or higher in general. I don't think either of these would be a panacea in your case though.

It's worth noting that our hobby has never had 100% stable alkalinity/calcium until automated testers like the Trident came out. The "test and adjust" method has worked for the hobby just fine since calcium and alkalinity testing became possible at home.

 

[SPR1968]

I’ve got 2 systems, one the S650 which maintains alkalinity etc by standard dosing using Red Sea foundation elements and a Kamoer doser. This needs adjusting slightly each week, or not as the case may be, depending on each elements usage.

The bigger system has a Deltec Twin Tech calcium reactor with Rowalith W media.

The calcium reactor and in particular media maintains all elements in line as the media breaks down, to the point I only check alkalinity weekly, and calcium/magnesium occasionally. Because if the alkalinity is kept in line, the others just follow, they never budge. This will depend on what media is in it of course

With the Twin Tech in particular, all I do is occasionally press a button to alter the output flow up or drown depending on alkalinity use, and that’s it.

So although calcium reactors appear a bit scary and intimidating, the principal is very simple and it’s just a matter of getting one that meets your requirement. The Twin Tech is fully automated and simple. But, also expensive but to me it’s worth every penny.

 

[X-37B]

As an old school guy from the 80's their is no magic way. You can make things stable by chosing a range, in your case alk. A range is doable and keeps you from chasing a specific number.
My alk range is 7-7.5 and has stayed in that range for the last 4+ months since lowering from 8-8.5.
I run a properly tuned carx with no ph probe or controller, old school style lol.
If tuned correctly your ph will not change.
I test alk every other day and some times every day with Hanna. Takes all of a few minutes and I keep a paper log of it, again old school.
I could easily test once a week but it keeps me in touch with my tank.

I dose my frag tank by hand with 2 part with no problem.
Dose daily in the morning and run same range as my 120 7-7.5.

 

[Daniel92481]

I have only been in the hobby for a couple years so really can’t give insight on old school methods. So far, what seems to work for me though is manual testing of all parameters. Although time consuming, manual testing keeps you “tuned” into your tank. If tested regularly, you will develop trends in levels vs. a specific number. These trends help you understand if there is testing error. I would also consider going back to basics, with manual dosing of ALK, Ca, and Mg. All the fancy toys are great, but adding them to your system adds a whole new level of possible error, such as pinched tubing, buildup over time, inaccurate dosages, etc. There are many variables to be considered. One other thing I have noticed is that regardless of the make/manufacturer of salt, parameter levels can/will fluctuate with each new bucket. Something to consider.

 

[Doctorgori]

Varied advice, but all of it good ...
I totally get the frustration: test - adj. - test - adjust - test - adjust
I personally wouldn’t sLow down testing Frequency any less than 1x for alk 2x/wk is better; maybe standard ...
A .3 - .5 swing over a week ain’t “terrible”
I dunno, everyone is different but I’ve had nothing but bad things happen skipping alk test .... some testing paranoia is a good thing in this hobby

 

[DivingTheWorld]

IMO there is no secret for Alkalinity stability. Make sure you keep your Mag up, but that’s not really a secret. I’ve found that many of the best Acro tanks test Alk often, at least once/day. There are so many things that can cause an Alk swing and IMO, Alk is probably the single most important thing to healthy corals.

I use an Alkatronic which tests 4x/day and I never have to worry about hunting for reagents. I bought it mostly for vacation piece of mind which allows me to make adjustments remotely. When I’m home, I verify with my Hanna every 1-3 days.

I would also recommend to never rely on one type of test for a particular parameter over extended periods of time. The advancements in our hobby are causing reefers to get a bit lazy. There was a recent post from a newish reefer who was relying on Apex/Trident to test for Salinity, pH, Alk, Cal, and Mag. His corals started dying and it turned out most of his test results were way out of true range. I would recommend (at least once a week), verify your results with another test kit or device. It likely won’t be an exact match, but they should be similar.

 

[blstravler]

Limewater and calcium reactors. Limewater is sort of self regulating because the more thats added the higher the ph raises temporarily, and corals calcify at higher ph. So it maintians it when it gets too high sort of.

2nd this and it’s very easy and reliable.

 

[Mhart032]

It is challenging and frustrating and no matter what you do, DO NOT chase numbers to achieve a certain number which will do more harm than good to your coral. Try rather to achieve a stable number that you can keep steady and the coral happy at the same time.
Dosing for me was the easiest method of stable readings as long as you apply correct calculation.

That is just superb advice right there. No kidding aside. I had been running my alk in the high 8s and was hard for me to adjust to the 7dkh KZ wanted, to wrap my mind around a dkh of only 7 I stressed about it for days finally I just said hell with it. It stabilized out at 7.3 and been spot on ever since.

 

[Robinson]

High PH = more growth = more Alk consumption. This is not a theory as there are many study that support this. If you keep opening windows only some days of the week, then those days you probably will have a trend of higher PH. This explains why you have more consumption during those days. Then, you dont opend any windows and the PH start to drop after a few days and that also slow down the growth, which by side effect have lower Alk consumption. I can tell you this as I monitor mi Alk with Alkatronic and I can see the trend of higher alk readings when my CO2 media is getting exhausted and my ph start to drop back close to 8. Once I replace the media, PH goes higher and my Alk readings goes back to were it used to be. Personally I recommend to keep an eye in your pH and avoid having to big swing of ph week to week. I don’t recommend chasing PH but the effect of opening windows randomly is creating a variation in your consumption and that’s what is creating your Alk swing.

 

[Mickeyt1reef]

I can agree with @Cory on this one. I ran 2-part for more than 2 years on my tank and was constantly trying to perfect my calcium and alkalinity levels fighting precipitation, dosing formulas, brands, etc. I just got a calcium reactor a few months ago and it never deviates. Now, I have to find something else to obsess about . I am struggling with lower PH after the switch (a drop in 0.3 since I'm no longer running soda ash), but I plan on adding a Kalk reactor to help with this. (supported by Cory's comment also). For now, I'm running a circulating co2 reactor on my skimmer air-intake to keep the PH from dropping into the 7.8 ranges -- it will normally keep things juuuuuuust under 8.0.

I remember telling my sensei at the LFS I was done with the two part And kalkwasser switching and to calcium reactor. He said i will still need to dose kalk to keep my pH up. I thought he was crazy. But he was right I ended up dozing Kalk again

 

[brianbigoats]

Sometimes ignorance is bliss 15 years ago Add some Kalk into ATO and ran a calcium reactor counting drips and bubbles tested once a week with unreliable test kits and fluctuations were normal

it is so much easier today testers are much more reliable

 

[bwp]

Like others have said, I would suggest you switch to kalkwasser. I skipped steps and went straight to a calcium reactor and then lost some of my coral when my ph plunged to 7.6 .

I suggest that you start with kalkwasser and then add a calcium reactor only if you are still having trouble maintaining alk.

In my 220 gallon, I am dosing a little over 2 gallons of saturated kalkwasser per day and it maintains my alk for now. Enough that I have turned my calcium reactor until my alk usage increases.

-B

 

[Rich Klein]

I moved from 2-Part to a Calcium Reactor, but also use a CO2 scrubber so I was able to maintain a decent PH (8.22- 8.32). I also have a Trident, so keeping my Alk stable is a dial-click on my Kamoer FX-STP pump one direction or another.

 

[Hydrored]

So far I have been very happy moving to a calcium reactor and still continuing the auto water changes. Has made the stability excellent testing 8 times a day while settling the reactor in-