What’s wrong with being a NEW & OLD School reefer?

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Well, mostly because I can't afford all the new tech, but I feel like I steer to some "old fashioned" reef keeping ideas. Plus, I just don't really understand all the fancy new technology stuffs for the hobby, haven't been able to wrap my head around it. My tank is pretty dang simple. Low light and low maintenance tank. I don't do a ton of water changes, trying to keep nitrates to a good level for the softies. Got an HOB filter, need to change the carbon, etc. And it's probably overstocked with fish or something. But, it seems to be doing alright. It works for me at the moment so I consider it a general success.

 

[Crotalus]

I would define old school as a magnetic drive AC return pump. Float controlled gravity ATO. A wet/dry bioball filter. A venturi ozone injector/skimmer.

 

[Thales]

I would define old school as a magnetic drive AC return pump. Float controlled gravity ATO. A wet/dry bioball filter. A venturi ozone injector/skimmer.

Hair curlers!

 

[nick0206]

It seems to me that you should not divide the reefer into the reefer of the old school and new.
Thanks to these people who were the pioneers of our hobby, we have today's results. And what kind of denitrification system is used, what kind of lamps are there or how who measures the parameters of water, then a lot of questions of tastes and preferences.
I know a lot of guys who still haven't switched to led lights ... well, they don’t like the colors of coral under the led ...
It’s like in music, someone loves jazz, someone rock, and someone only modern, such as Lady Gaga. And to consider those who prefer to listen to the Beatles as my daughter, 27 years old, or me, a lover of Ozzy and Deep Purple, lovers of the old school of music? (Lady Gaga and System Of a Down, I also listen with pleasure).
And I do the tests manually. Apex and GHL are very expensive for me.
And if I get some money for myself, then I recently replaced the light in the tank and I'd rather add another Kessil than the controller from the GHL.
But I consider the denitrification system from Tropic Marine to be revolutionary, without any reactors, and I use it. I don’t even know if I’m old school or new?

 

[Paul B]

Great topic but hard to answer as most tanks use some new and old technology,

I got my first tank in the fifties. Yes we had fish then. Jesus was a friend of mine and he turned my 2 guppies into a thousand guppies.

Anyway, I started my reef with water from the East River in Manhattan, right after the oil barges ran through it and I took my rocks from a muddy bay. The gravel was bluestone from my neighbors driveway. I bought dead white coral from furniture stores as there were no salt water fish stores (or credit cards)

That tank is still running. But I did change the gravel to dolomite which I feel is the best.
The water I still take from the ocean because it is real water and ASW is fake water. I did use fake water for many years when I couldn't collect it.

I built a skimmer when they were first invented in the 70s and I wouldn't live without it. They are old school.

But I feel the hardware today is total garbage. I really hate the Korilla pumps and all the open grill propeller pumps. I like my stuff to last for decades and not a few years. I use these pumps and have some from the 70s, still running and no maintenance.
After 20 years or so the shaft wears thin so I put a piece of shrink tubing on the shaft and they go for another 10 years until I have to replace the shrink tubing.

For the last ten years or so I have used New School LEDS. I love them but although LEDs are supposed to last for 1,500 years, they don't. Many of them croak after a few months. Even the LED bulbs you buy for your general lighting in your home normally last about as long as a regular tungsten bulb that Edison invented 110 years ago. It's usually the electronics that burn out.

That's because they are all made in China and there is no such thing as a "quality" product from China no matter how much you pay.

Yesterday I went to buy a flagpole for my American made American Flag. I couldn't get one because they were made in China and I don't want one for free so I will make my own.

I think total new school tanks are much to clean and the fish know that. They don't like clean, they want to see some algae, cyano and detritus. But they really hate (New School) PVC fittings which is why if I ever had to use a spare tank to raise fish or keep cannibalistic fish separate I would use Old school bricks for decoration and hiding places. (I don't have a quarantine or hospital tank)

I also would never clean the algae off the back glass as that is where the life begins.
Quarantining, we always had, right from the beginning so that could be considered old school and I feel that is the worst thing we old guys ever invented as it actually causes our fish to get sick, not the other way around. (Just my opinion of course )

I like to use mostly natural food like clams or worms as opposed to flakes and pellets which came out before most people here were born. I remember the first dry foods were dehydrated insects.
I also think Tetra came out with the first dry flakes which I used for many years before I found a better way.

So I use a mix of old and new school. Old school fluorescent lights won't let you keep corals and old school HOB filters with fiberglass is also not good today although I still have some in my archives for nostalgic purposes.

 

[Phildago]

I love old school, but I also love toys and don't really have enough space to be old school, so I say both.

I'd like my tank to be running like an micro ecosystem in a biology lab. Since my lab is not staffed 24 hours a day, and is actually a fairly small house... I built my own gadgets to automate my tank and keep everything in balance... But since it's a well balanced eco system it basically runs itself and is backed with life.

 

[scavdog]

After diving in the hobby in 2000/2001 I took a serious break over the last 8 years. DSB's and even Natural Sea water. But lately - Man do I feel like Rip Van Winkle! From my slightly dated vantage point, things have changed significantly technologically: DC Pumps, (reliable / affordable) LED's, Uber tight looking all-in-one systems, and quantum leaps in controller tech advancements.

I completely agree on the "Old School" approach of chemistry knowledge. There was never one answer to a problem in a tank - although that seems to have changed. A couple drops later and P04 seems to be a thing of the past. I was always a DSB / refugium guy. I feel it was mature, functional and biologically diverse. After losing my battle to AEFW, I started a new tank with a shallow bed, but experienced less success.

With a new system in the ramp-up stage, I am trying to employ the best of both worlds. LED, DC return and a controller + everything that is tucked away in my rusty noggin. I still get crap from fellow reefers about contemplating a DSB in the new setup (remote or in-display).

As with anything in life, you have to scrutinize, yet keep an open mind. New school or old school, it's all the same end-game: successful reef husbandry.

 

[RobertP]

Power consumption is something that I think differentiates new pumps from the old ones. Since power in Texas is relatively cheap it is not a huge concern of mine so I don't lose sleep if a pump is 125 watts vs 25 watts. For lights the new LED are great but if you have to buy more of them to cover everything then power consumption is almost the same as T5s.

So I tend to borrow from both. I have not been convinced that a new expensive BK skimmer does twice as much work as Lifereef that is half the price and old school tech. I sound like an ad for LR and I dont even have one right now!

All that said...the display is all that matters. Are the fish and corals healthy and happy? If they are then you are doing it correctly!

 

[Belgian Anthias]

What is considdered to be"OLD" school or "NEW"school?
Is it about nutrient management?
Is it about the way a system is conditioned?
Is it about a low or high carying capacity and bio-load?
Is it about using bio-filters?
Is it about the lighting used.? LED ?
Is it about natural colors or fluo?
Is it about "natural" or "shelf " reefing.
Is it about the amount of money spent on elektronics and automation?
Is it about harware used? or software?
Is it about following the commercial trends?
Exempt for the knowledge about the differnt players and the coral holobiont, reefkeeping has not evolved much since the past decades. I would really do not know how what is "OLD"school?

 

[427HISS]

My wife and I started reefing back in 1995, but left in 2000 for two other Bobby's, I built a 1966 Ford 427 Shelby Cobra and winged Sprint Car Racing. We retired from racing in 2014 then a few years ago, we're back into the wonderful and beautiful reef hobby. When we started out, things were simple. I built a in-wall 75g mixed reef, the face of the tank was in the living room and backing it was a bedroom we did not use, so it became the reef room.

With that said, onto the old school.

I made my own air driven skimmer, 5' tall 6" diameter, a piston pump in the basement to feed a 2" x 8" block of basswood which I made from a 2'' x 12" x 36" long of wood. Then drill & tap for a air nipple. I wood replace the diffuser every month. The reaction chamber was full of the best tiny bubbles which was 12" long. The pump cost me $75.00, all the PVC was around $45.00, the 10" long x 8 diameter clear reaction chamber was $15.00. I still have the the skimmer under our deck, I'd only need to replace the clear reaction chamber as it's cracked.

For lighting, I bought a ICECAP VHO kit, which included a ramp up ramp down balast.
I made a metal hood with a pulley system to raise and lowered for any needs. For calcium a friend and I would buy a 50lb box of 99% pure calcium chloride from a pharmaceutical company and divide it. I used a juice container and a hospital IV to make a drip system. I also made my own sump.

Anyway, my point is, that all of that was was cheap, simple and low in cost.
When we got back to reefing, we were shocked about the advance's in lighting, skimmers, sumps, reactors for everything we could imagine, controllers, etc. Truly amazing, but all of the technologies are also extremely,....expensive ! The cost of the LED lighting system's are wonderful, except the price. When you buy a LED light for say,....from $600, $700 to $800 each, that only cover a 2' x 2' area, that's crazy. I know you can buy real low cost no name LED lights for 100 bucks, but their not high quality, but a few companies are pretty good lights.

In closing, the old school systems were much lower in price and a lot of us DIY guys made our own equipment, and there weren't many company's out there to buy professional products.

New school, is all very high technology in every aspect of our hobby. I mean in the old days, we never had a thought,...of a computer/s managing the entire system while you're away, not only a day, but a week, to a month or so ! You can see it all by a cell phone when you are half around the world ! Wow.

Technology has come a long,..way, but it can also create a lot of problems too. A friend went skiing for three days, but when he returnd, he was shocked to find that his auto feeder dumped all the food in the tank, killing almost every fish and corals. It was a 185g with all the best products. He lost thousands,...of dollars and all the loved fish and corals. I can give many examples of this, but you all know what I mean.

Since I have a bad disability I'm at home most of the time, I will keep the amount of the high-tech products down, even though I love to tinker !

So I voted for both, old & new.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Old "school" or New "school"?
If it is about basic knowledge I think "old school" basic knowledge was from another level. Now, most starters are struggling with how to use the sophisticated equipment they bought and are less interested in how nature drives their live support system and how to manage this.
Only rich people started a marine tank in the 60ties and early 70ties without knowing the basics and a good bio to support the bio-load. For the basic knowledge we had to buy expensive books, information about marine aquaria was not available in the local library.
Now there is the internet, feeding the newbie so much information one thus not know where to start. So much so-called "specialized information" of which a lot lives its own life on reefers fora. Reefers have developed their own beliefs.
Now a newbie comes home with a skimmer, a computer, a dosing pump, a bunch of chemicals and test equipment, a miracle bottle and the invitation to come to the store for the first fishes a week later. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but it expresses the way I feel about off what I think to be part of " NEW SCHOOL" reef keeping.
Also in the old times, marine aquaria were expensive. Imported marine live was very expensive. We did not want to lose a fish. Marine salts where expensive and water changes were based on the evolution of pH and alkalinity We could not test for nitrate or phosphate at that time. I took water samples for testing every 6 months and the samples were brought to the aquarium store. Such tests where expensive. We had the belief we could not keep corals this way and did not try it. Aquascaping was with bleached and sterilized rock and coral skeletons. And we loved (some) algae! It changed with the evolution of test equipment.
The first introduction of live corals in a home aquarium I witnessed was in a new setup tank with bleached and sterilized base rock as decoration, managed by a bio, a UV germicidal lamp and a simple counter-current skimmer. Lightning was TL. The corals where 2 complete pieces LPS each with their own base rock. The first fish was introduced months later. The mixed reef tank survived for 7 years. ( Due to an electrical failure)
Although the past decades there has been an enormous evolution in the equipment used and about the knowledge of different essential players and processes involved, the same questions about the same problems are asked and repeated. This did not decrease by "NEW school " reef keeping, and since one has banned an "OLD school" bio-filter.

 

[427HISS]

Old "school" or New "school"?
If it is about basic knowledge I think "old school" basic knowledge was from another level. Now, most starters are struggling with how to use the sophisticated equipment they bought and are less interested in how nature drives their live support system and how to manage this.
Only rich people started a marine tank in the 60ties and early 70ties without knowing the basics and a good bio to support the bio-load. For the basic knowledge we had to buy expensive books, information about marine aquaria was not available in the local library.
Now there is the internet, feeding the newbie so much information one thus not know where to start. So much so-called "specialized information" of which a lot lives its own life on reefers fora. Reefers have developed their own beliefs.
Now a newbie comes home with a skimmer, a computer, a dosing pump, a bunch of chemicals and test equipment, a miracle bottle and the invitation to come to the store for the first fishes a week later. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but it expresses the way I feel about off what I think to be part of " NEW SCHOOL" reef keeping.
Also in the old times, marine aquaria were expensive. Imported marine live was very expensive. We did not want to lose a fish. Marine salts where expensive and water changes were based on the evolution of pH and alkalinity We could not test for nitrate or phosphate at that time. I took water samples for testing every 6 months and the samples were brought to the aquarium store. Such tests where expensive. We had the belief we could not keep corals this way and did not try it. Aquascaping was with bleached and sterilized rock and coral skeletons. And we loved (some) algae! It changed with the evolution of test equipment.
The first introduction of live corals in a home aquarium I witnessed was in a new setup tank with bleached and sterilized base rock as decoration, managed by a bio, a UV germicidal lamp and a simple counter-current skimmer. Lightning was TL. The corals where 2 complete pieces LPS each with their own base rock. The first fish was introduced months later. The mixed reef tank survived for 7 years. ( Due to an electrical failure)
Although the past decades there has been an enormous evolution in the equipment used and about the knowledge of different essential players and processes involved, the same questions about the same problems are asked and repeated. This did not decrease by "NEW school " reef keeping, and since one has banned an "OLD school" bio-filter.

Exactly & well said.

 

[Anchor]

Is Old school and New School a "When" thing or is it methods of doing the same thing? Seems "School" means nothing here. I would argue that success is the measure we should be going by. Knowledge acquired by using our desired methods of creating that success. When someone uses a lot of DIY gear, for instance, and as most of that is usually very mechanical and simple in nature, does that make them old school? If that same person makes DIY with a ton of electronics, does that make them new school. No, I think success by any means is the measure, not the method or equipment one uses.. Old gear and methods is the same as new gear and methods it is just the new gear is a different way to do the exact same thing.

I was using UG plates with powerheads as reverse flow in the 90's and it worked pretty well. I Know I could do the same thing today with new equipment and succeed. But I would prefer a sump as it makes maintenance easier. I would go bare bottom too and eliminate places for detritus to build up. It is half dozen of one and 6 of another.. Oh how Cliché..

 

[Paul B]

Only rich people started a marine tank in the 60s and early 70s

I started my tank then and was pretty poor. But I didn't need money. After I got a tank, and I forgot where I got it but I think I used to have turtles in it, I collected water from the East River next to Manhattan. I used driveway gravel, (blue stone) from my neighbors driveway. I had a heater and must have used a droplight or flashlight for a light. I also had, or built a piston air pump for circulation. That was about it and the only fish available were blue devils, dominoes, and sargent majors which were about $7.00 each, or a days salary then.

Everything was fine except I had to keep copper pennies in the water for ich prevention. No,Really!!!

Today people use all sorts of chemicals, controllers, quarantine, medications, weird lighting, dosers etc. And have more problems now than we had then. I don't get it.



Go Figure.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Old school and New school are misnomers in this day and age.

Early reef keeping was done with simplistic equipment (because that's all there was!) and in most cases based on the "Berlin method".

(Most building blocks of today's reef tanks are still imploring this method, realized or not)

And we know how things are now, tech driven.

So, let's clear the air here.......
To me......... Today..... Now......

Old school means a simplistic approach to keeping a reef tank. Can be highly successful. Can include DIY.

New school means a blend of Old school and today's technology.

Now, Old reefers (seasoned 20-40 years +), Reef keepers (2-19 years) and New hobbyist (-2 years), this is where the true differences are in knowledge, experience, application and learning collide. All are attempting to do the exact same thing, be successful short term and long term. Just doing it a way that works for them.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Old school and New school are misnomers in this day and age.

Early reef keeping was done with simplistic equipment (because that's all there was!) and in most cases based on the "Berlin method".

(Most building blocks of today's reef tanks are still imploring this method, realized or not)

And we know how things are now, tech driven.

So, let's clear the air here.......
To me......... Today..... Now......

Old school means a simplistic approach to keeping a reef tank. Can be highly successful. Can include DIY.

New school means a blend of Old school and today's technology.

Now, Old reefers (seasoned 20-40 years +), Reef keepers (2-19 years) and New hobbyist (-2 years), this is where the true differences are in knowledge, experience, application and learning collide. All are attempting to do the exact same thing, be successful short term and long term. Just doing it a way that works for them.

What is the Berlin method?
What is regarded as the Berlin method is in fact nothing more than a normal seawater aquarium of that time in Western Europe (1970-1980), with or without a separate BIO, where lime, shell grit, is used as a substrate for the growth of the nitrifying biofilm instead of quartz sand, as usual until then. Peter Wilkens points to the importance of making the difference between carbonate hardness and total hardness, a distinction that until then is not made by most authors. (WilkensPeter1980> Wilkens, Peter. Niedere Tiere in the tropical Seewa aquarium. 2. Aufl. Wuppertal-Elberfeld: Pfriem, 1987.) Frank De Graaf already pointed out in 1969 the importance of the use of lime in the seawater aquarium and bio-filters and the importance of compensating this way for the influence of nitrification on the carbonate hardness in the seawater aquarium (FDeGraaf1969> Frank De Graaf. Handboek voor het tropisch Zeewateraquarium. Second edition. AJG Strengholt NV Amsterdam, 1969.) Peter Wilkens describes adding Kalkwasser, thus circumventing the problem of Apatite formation and bio-pollution on the lime substrate, which appears to give fantastic results for keeping corals, and what is later referred to as the Berlin method in publications by other authors.

For me, this makes the difference between the old school and the new school. And it is a very long time ago.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I don't think this has anything to do with old tech vs new tech, I think we can all agree there are a lot of better ways to do things because of the tech we have access too. People get stuck in old ways because all colors/costs/equipment/livestock aside what makes or breaks this hobby is your ability to maintain a routine to keep it all going even when life throws curve balls. Old school reefers are old school because they figured it out and they keep on going, they may not need to change a thing because they figured out the magic bullet and that's a routine that works for them consistently over a long period of time and anything new to the hobby is a luxury at this point.

I started with T5, moved to LED not because it was new but because I no longer worry about massive heat issues over my tank. Now I have a hybrid to gain best of both worlds. That's how this hobby works; new stuff comes out and you figure out what works. I am now so used to testing in my routine I am trying to determine if I want to spend the money on automated testing that's becoming the next big thing.

Being close minded just because stuff is "new school" is going to happen but those types of people often times get off on being angry and complaining.

We are seeing this change before out eyes outside of the reefing community too, look at ICE vs EV cars.

 

[duke62]

If you don’t see the significance in this post you don’t go on social media often. People seem to be spending more money on their sumps and equipment then actually filling their tanks. Putting more time and money color coding their pipes and LED special effect lights inside their sump cabinet, using equipment that just is not necessary because we all don’t need to see what our alk,cal, and mag are 6 times per day lol Us “old” guys know none of these things are necessary. And yes I created the meme. Follow me

 

[Reefcowboy]

The pic says it all. With new equipment and youtube channels, everyone is an expert, and like to bash old schools ways and say people cant evolve or let go of what is proven..but then you look in their tanks you clearly see the difference of what success really means

 

[CavamaroZ28]

Lol it's like old school car guys and there carburetors and distributors VS new car guys and there fuel injection and computer tuning... both ways make horsepower but only one way involves less tinkering. All depends on the person you are. Old school reefing I feel brings more joy and more of a sense of accomplishment having to be more involved to keep a tank thriving. It needs you. Iv pretty much gone completely new school and I just make sure theres dosing supplements, trident reagents, and water in the top off. That's it. It's very nice not having to do so much but I dont get the same feeling i did before the fancy stuff. But i do LOVE the extra free time i have