What are your thoughts on PNS Probio?

[haitian_reefer]

Before you dose PNS PROBIO, I encourage you to smell it

 

[pygo1]

I used it for 6 weeks including the yellow sno as directed and it had no effects on either N03 or P04. Not a single 100th of a point of reduction. I know 6 weeks isn't long but with other bacterial products I've at least seen seem some type of reduction by this time.

I had high hopes it would be the one bacteria that would be better at sequestering P04 but it was a bust.

There are many commercial bacteria products that are a lot less and do well with nitrates but not so with P04, so my search continues.

Maybe in conjunction with a carbon dosing regime it would work better but I can get that with the less expensive products.

What's your tank setup like? IIRC, it'll do best in lit anaerobic zones, like the upper layers of the sand bed, so if you're running bare bottom that may be one issue. It supposedly works well in conjunction with carbon dosing, so that's another option worth checking out. I run biopellets, have never bothered with vodka or other liquid methods, so that might be worth looking into. A skimmer is also pretty much a must. I know most people run skimmers, but I still had to ask. Without one, there's no w ay for the nutrient laden bacteria to be removed from the system.
I do agree that it's one of the pricier options out there. I'm a cheapskate, so it was a little painful buying this product lol. But they're still a relatively small company, so hopefully as they grow they can scale up production accordingly to eventually lower cost

 

[las]

can i ask why you think its mandatory to run a skimmer? i have it on a skimmerless system. And, wondering what downside this could cause.

 

[pygo1]

can i ask why you think its mandatory to run a skimmer? i have it on a skimmerless system. And, wondering what downside this could cause.

The skimmer is must for bacteria focused nutrient export(carbon dosing). The gist of it is that bacteria consume nitrate and some phosphate and are eventually skimmed out of the system, effectively removing those nutrients to the skimmer cup. Adding biopellets or vodka or whatever drastically speeds up the growth of bacteria, but this process will occur at some rate whether you dose carbon or not.

Without a skimmer, the bacteria are never removed from the system in any way. So, they take in your nitrate and phosphate, go through their life cycle, then die and release it back into the tank. By adding these bacteria, you aren't adding much in terms of nutrients, but you aren't taking any away either.

The plus side is they will sequester some amount of nutrients, maybe slightly lowering it, but it is never removed from the tank so it is more or less a net zero effect. However, these bacteria do act as a coral food/symbiont, plus they probably get eaten by pods and other organisms in the tank. So while you aren't really achieving nutrient removal with it, you are diversifying the microbiome which helps convert some of these nutrients into food for higher order organisms.

 

[las]

ah ok. I do daily 5% water changes (Nano tank). So I guess I’m covered on bacteria export.

 

[locito277]

So my phosphates were at 3.4 and my Nitrates were 73 post water change in my seahorse tank. Turned skimmers off and dosed Thursday night. Kept skimmers off overnight and fed seahorses in AM. Took water sample around 2 hrs post meal and tested again. My Phosphates had dropped from 3.7 to 3.4 and Nitrates rose slightly. Turned skimmer on and took water Sunday morning to test and my phospahtes came back at 0 and Nitrates were at 10 :) Did the skimmer take up the bacteria after it ate the phosphate? We did retest 3 times. Pretty amazed. Now were testing to see how often I will be needing to dose.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

So my phosphates were at 3.4 and my Nitrates were 73 post water change in my seahorse tank. Turned skimmers off and dosed Thursday night. Kept skimmers off overnight and fed seahorses in AM. Took water sample around 2 hrs post meal and tested again. My Phosphates had dropped from 3.7 to 3.4 and Nitrates rose slightly. Turned skimmer on and took water Sunday morning to test and my phospahtes came back at 0 and Nitrates were at 10 :) Did the skimmer take up the bacteria after it ate the phosphate? We did retest 3 times. Pretty amazed. Now were testing to see how often I will be needing to dose.

Wow, thanks for all the details. Yes, it's certainly possible that most of the PO4 was exported via the skimmer. These bacteria are phosphate accumulators, and thus can take up much more PO4 than they require for growth, and do so in short time.

Were these high nutrient levels a persistent issue, or did they creep up and spike shortly before the addition of the bacteria? Do you have any anaerobic biomedia in the system (perhaps including a deep sand bed)?

 

[locito277]

tested today and phosphates rose to 1.5. I feed insane amounts of food a day. 50 seahorses eat a lot daily. I do have a deep sand bed, say about 8 inches deep as we have garden eels in there as well. Aquachar too but it changed with the PNS probio for sure. Only thing
I changed. I’ll be testing tomorrow to see where we’re at. Experiment will be on hold as we travel to NY Thursday until next Tuesday. Stuffs great and smell wasn’t sulfur bad

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

tested today and phosphates rose to 1.5. I feed insane amounts of food a day. 50 seahorses eat a lot daily. I do have a deep sand bed, say about 8 inches deep as we have garden eels in there as well. Aquachar too but it changed with the PNS probio for sure. Only thing
I changed. I’ll be testing tomorrow to see where we’re at. Experiment will be on hold as we travel to NY Thursday until next Tuesday. Stuffs great and smell wasn’t sulfur bad

Oh, nice, yes, these bacteria (Rhodopseudomonas spp.) and their relatives (the Bradyrhizobiaceae) apparently perform really well on biochar. Check out this study comparing biochar to Hagen Biomax as biomedia. Fresh Aquachar has an internal pH that is high enough to inhibit their growth, but mature Aquachar might be an excellent medium (in addition to your sandbed). Thanks again for all the details. :)

 

[Lavey29]

All I can say is PNS probio has significantly improved my tank in multiple areas. I'm doing one full dose weekly now.

 

[pygo1]

Just a quick update as it’s 5 am and dont have the capacity to write up a ton right now :P

I’ve been dosing about a month now. I’ve slowed down from every other day to about 1-2 doses per week. My GHA died back heavily at first, but has regained some vigor since reducing the dose.
I haven’t had to scrape the glass for the entire month though! Film algae is all but gone. However instead of green, I’m starting to get a grayish film on the glass, bacterial I’m assuming.

the corals have been happier than ever. Growth has been strong, polyp extension is great. My cyphastrea that hasn’t grown in a year is finally spreading a bit and a bleached scoly from another tank has regained a ton of color. My tank all around is looking much cleaner and I couldn’t be happier with the product!
I’ll post some update photos after work when the lights turn on.

 

[pygo1]

1st pic of the scoly was Sept 22, 2nd pic was today. It has majorly recovered in the tank during this last month.
Threw in a blurry FTP(sorry dirty lens :P )
I just sold a large rock and threw in some dry pieces I had collected on a trip, so the left half of the tank is a little wonky right now, still need things to settle and grow in. But all in all, besides the GHA, the tank has been VERY happy

 

[xtianGEO]

I love the stuff. I use 4 oz every other day between 3 tanks ,2 60 gallon systems and a 160 gallon system. I only need to scraped the glass once a week twice at the most. Helps keep PO4 low all 3 tanks @ about .04 -.06 ppm.
I use the home grow kits and produce 2.5 gallons at a times. Here is a shot of the growing system.

Where do you purchase the home grow kits?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Where do you purchase the home grow kits?

https://www.hydrospace.store/product-page/pns-homegro-2-5-gal

 

[Jimbo327]

Is it normal for brand new bottles of PNS Probio to smell bad? I have tried on 3 instances, and each time, I smell the bottle after I open it. It is not pleasant. My family complains that it stinks up the house.

 

[Lavey29]

Is it normal for brand new bottles of PNS Probio to smell bad? I have tried on 3 instances, and each time, I smell the bottle after I open it. It is not pleasant. My family complains that it stinks up the house.

Yes

 

[clhardy5]

https://www.hydrospace.store/product-page/pns-homegro-2-5-gal

Quick question on your older post.....but once you use the first batch of 2.5 gallons.....Is it possible to just get the food and starter culture to make a new batch? Or do you you have to buy the whole kit again. Just wondering about sustainability.

TIA

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Quick question on your older post.....but once you use the first batch of 2.5 gallons.....Is it possible to just get the food and starter culture to make a new batch? Or do you you have to buy the whole kit again. Just wondering about sustainability.

TIA

Hi and thanks for reaching out!

We only offer the complete kit. There are several reasons for this, mainly related to safety and consistency. The low-density polyethylene culture vessel that is included does not withstand repeated exposure to heat well; consequently, we never recommend using them multiple times as to avoid them failing and spilling on the user while it is filled with hot water. Also, the biofilms that develop in each batch (particularly closest to the light source) can really stain the cube, and these stains are often impossible to completely remove even with bleach. Therefore, they would reduce/alter the incoming light in subsequent batches, leading to inconsistent (and probably suboptimal) results.

There would really not be much of a difference in price by offering a 'growth medium only' product due to the fact that the medium is by far the most costly component in terms of both material expense and labor. On the other hand, we purchase the containers in bulk and therefore get them at a reduced price (that is, they don't figure significantly into the overall retail price of the kit). By ensuring that the user has new and absolutely clean materials, as well as fresh inoculant (including a proper balance of the three species), we expect reasonably consistent results and can therefore offer our 100% unconditional guarantee for every single batch. :)

I hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Hi and thanks for reaching out!

We only offer the complete kit. There are several reasons for this, mainly related to safety and consistency. The low-density polyethylene culture vessel that is included does not withstand repeated exposure to heat well; consequently, we never recommend using them multiple times as to avoid them failing and spilling on the user while it is filled with hot water. Also, the biofilms that develop in each batch (particularly closest to the light source) can really stain the cube, and these stains are often impossible to completely remove even with bleach. Therefore, they would reduce/alter the incoming light in subsequent batches, leading to inconsistent (and probably suboptimal) results.

There would really not be much of a difference in price by offering a 'growth medium only' product due to the fact that the medium is by far the most costly component in terms of both material expense and labor. On the other hand, we purchase the containers in bulk and therefore get them at a reduced price (that is, they don't figure significantly into the overall retail price of the kit). By ensuring that the user has new and absolutely clean materials, as well as fresh inoculant (including a proper balance of the three species), we expect reasonably consistent results and can therefore offer our 100% unconditional guarantee for every single batch. :)

I hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions!

I believe the poster question was around sustainability. We need to try to reduce the amount of plastic where ever we can. I understand that you would like to have a consistent product, thereby using new plastic containers. But your customer could use a glass carboy which can be easily cleaned each time. You wouldn’t even have to sell the carboy, just provide the link to the source. Then you could provide your product to your customers in a more environmentally conscious way.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I believe the poster question was around sustainability. We need to try to reduce the amount of plastic where ever we can. I understand that you would like to have a consistent product, thereby using new plastic containers. But your customer could use a glass carboy which can be easily cleaned each time. You wouldn’t even have to sell the carboy, just provide the link to the source. Then you could provide your product to your customers in a more environmentally conscious way.

Thanks for that. In addition to the container, we also need to supply a fresh inoculum to ensure consistency (and so be able to guarantee consistent results). But yes, depending upon factors like the presence of air in the head space of the jug/carboy/etc. (which isn't a factor with the collapsible container in this kit), we couldn't truly be sure of achieving the highest degree of consistency. Additionally, because this particular vessel is collapsible, it doesn't chug in air (along with potential contaminants) as it empties. The spigot that comes with the container not only allows for easy and precise dispensing, but also helps to prevent contamination.

We do take sustainability very seriously, and that is reflected not only in our products but also in how we built our production facility (more about that in coming months!). In fact, PNS HomeGro was itself created for that very purpose--to allow aquarists to use large volumes of cultures (one of these kits treats over 8,000 gallons!) without dozens of bottles and fuel to ship them. As such, this container contains a relatively small amount of plastic for the amount of product it generates. Moreover, every part of it, aside from the small piece forming the mouth, is recyclable. Better yet, however, it is easily reused after cleaning, and we have many times in the past suggested using it to mix/store clean saltwater, kalkwasser, etc.

In the end, while taking every measure to keep our products and their packaging as environmentally friendly as possible, we only use materials we've discovered through years of practical experience to work best for the cultivation of these bacteria. Thus, the kits use the very same materials we use in our own production facility, thereby standardizing cultivation conditions and allowing us to offer the peace of mind that comes with an unconditional guarantee of success.

As mentioned in my last post, a version of the kit that was minus the container would be almost the same price (but not guaranteed). While someone buying such a version for reasons of sustainability would be very well-intended, they'd likely be pretty upset to invest that amount of money and time into an effort that ultimately failed. And I do sincerely believe that failure rates would increase with decreasing standardization. At present, with success rates that have actually exceeded our initial estimations, we intend to continue offering a single, complete kit along with our 100% guarantee.

That being said, if I missed any points, or seem to misunderstand any part of what OP or you asked, please feel free to press me here. You may also call us with your suggestions at any time (1-541-912-2906). We do listen: The PNS HomeGro kit was itself developed as the direct result of a request from the community! :slightly-smiling-face:

Thanks again for your thoughts, and happy reefing.