What do you expect out of an algae scrubber and what difference has it made?

[Lovefish77]

What did you notice to conclude stripping trace elements?

Like I said:
- Lps are not puffed up unless I do a large water change but this is short lived
- I have a decent scrubber that I hear strips a lot of trace elements
- trouble keeping acros

 

[Cory]

Like I said:
- Lps are not puffed up unless I do a large water change but this is short lived
- I have a decent scrubber that I hear strips a lot of trace elements
- trouble keeping acros

Ime lps puffing up is more water flow related. Having trouble with sps can be lots of things but whats your no3, po4 and daily ph swing?

 

[Lovefish77]

Ime lps puffing up is more water flow related. Having trouble with sps can be lots of things but whats your no3, po4 and daily ph swing?

My parameters are stable at N 20ppm, P 0.04-0.07ppm, alk 8 and param have been like that for over 2 years (tank is 5 years). I keep predominantly black widows and lps.
Apologies but i dont want this to be a parameters discussion on my tank. You know and I know how much variance ppl have with successfully running a tank.
If flow was the issue why would lps puff up after a WC (with the same flow!).

 

[((FORDTECH))]

My parameters are stable at N 20ppm, P 0.04-0.07ppm, alk 8 and param have been like that for over 2 years (tank is 5 years). I keep predominantly black widows and lps.
Apologies but i dont want this to be a parameters discussion on my tank. You know and I know how much variance ppl have with successfully running a tank.
If flow was the issue why would lps puff up after a WC (with the same flow!).

Maybe you have some kind of toxin in your water have you done an icy pitas anyways after doing your water change maybe there’s less toxins in your water until they build up again Just throwing it out there I could obviously be wrong

 

[Lovefish77]

Maybe you have some kind of toxin in your water have you done an icy pitas anyways after doing your water change maybe there’s less toxins in your water until they build up again Just throwing it out there I could obviously be wrong

Valid point, I have not dont icp but I am very ocd to my rodi water as I use it for cooking as well. I use reef Crystal's consistently too, so no idea what could be accumulating. I read in several places that scrubbers strip trace elements as opposed to chaeto/fuge. That is why I am inclined to think it is trace elements

PLUS , I have 2 other nanos ( less mature than my main tank) with similar parameters but without scrubber that are doing much better with lps, that is another argument i have

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Valid point, I have not dont icp but I am very ocd to my rodi water as I use it for cooking as well. I use reef Crystal's consistently too, so no idea what could be accumulating. I read in several places that scrubbers strip trace elements as opposed to chaeto/fuge. That is why I am inclined to think it is trace elements

PLUS , I have 2 other nanos ( less mature than my main tank) with similar parameters but without scrubber that are doing much better with lps, that is another argument i have

Hmmm I have only read about how cheato and fuges strip traces but I can imagine the algae scrubber had the same effect and I just have not read about it yet.
I do run a Clearwater300 on both of my 300 gallon systems along with cheato in large fuges. So this is interesting conversation to me because I have done many icp tests with low or 0 trace element numbers. I do feed very heavy and between skimmer and scrubber and cheato my nitrate and phosphate look good to me at .20 and 20-25ish

 

[Lovefish77]

Hmmm I have only read about how cheato and fuges strip traces but I can imagine the algae scrubber had the same effect and I just have not read about it yet.
I do run a Clearwater300 on both of my 300 gallon systems along with cheato in large fuges. So this is interesting conversation to me because I have done many icp tests with low or 0 trace element numbers. I do feed very heavy and between skimmer and scrubber and cheato my nitrate and phosphate look good to me at .20 and 20-25ish

When you say " I have done many icp tests with low or 0 trace element numbers", you mean they are depleted per icp tests? Interested to know. I also feed a ton to my black widow anemones, I feed like 8 cubes a day or more on average. So even with a scrubber my nitrates are 20-25ppm.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

When you say " I have done many icp tests with low or 0 trace element numbers", you mean they are depleted per icp tests? Interested to know. I also feed a ton to my black widow anemones, I feed like 8 cubes a day or more on average. So even with a scrubber my nitrates are 20-25ppm.

In both my 300 gallon systems I feed 6-8 cubes a day and neptunes auto feeder 4x a day and yes depleted a lot of the trace elements to 0 or close to. My tanks are also stacked with corals so it could be the corals using the traces

 

[Lovefish77]

In both my 300 gallon systems I feed 6-8 cubes a day and neptunes auto feeder 4x a day and yes depleted a lot of the trace elements to 0 or close to. My tanks are also stacked with corals so it could be the corals using the traces

If you are doing decent water changes they will compensate for trace elements uptake by corals. Scrubber strip out more on top of that, that is my theory.
Triton method employs no water change though with a fuge so you have to dose trace elements in Core components 1-4

 

[Cory]

My parameters are stable at N 20ppm, P 0.04-0.07ppm, alk 8 and param have been like that for over 2 years (tank is 5 years). I keep predominantly black widows and lps.
Apologies but i dont want this to be a parameters discussion on my tank. You know and I know how much variance ppl have with successfully running a tank.
If flow was the issue why would lps puff up after a WC (with the same flow!).

What is your ph?

 

[Lovefish77]

What is your ph?

I think it is hovering around 7.9-8.0

 

[Cory]

I think it is hovering around 7.9-8.0

Ime thats too low for decent coral growth. My sps were struggling until I got the ph low to 8.1 and the high to 8.3. Id suggest trying to raise it by getting rid of indoor co2. I had to put a lid on my tank and pump air into it and the skimmer from outside. Ph used to by 7.6 to 8.

 

[Lovefish77]

Ime thats too low for decent coral growth. My sps were struggling until I got the ph low to 8.1 and the high to 8.3. Id suggest trying to raise it by getting rid of indoor co2. I had to put a lid on my tank and pump air into it and the skimmer from outside. Ph used to by 7.6 to 8.

Thanks for the tip but to get outside air I need to extend the airline over 30feet defying the purpose. But you think low ph will just kill sps short term or just stifle growth?

 

[Cory]

Thanks for the tip but to get outside air I need to extend the airline over 30feet defying the purpose. But you think low ph will just kill sps short term or just stifle growth?

It will do both ime. My ph got to 7.6 some days due to having my gas range on (it produces Co2). With the lid it stays above 8.1 at night. I used an air pump sucking from a window that i modified to have a 2" abs pipe with a bulkhead out of it. Pretty sure some air pumps wouldn't have a problem with 30 feet if your up to it. I think it will solve a lot of your problems. You can also try a co2 scrubber but it gets costly.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Just reviving this thread, I have a scrubber and its doing its job. The problem is k think it is stripping too much trace elements. After a water change like 10% Lps inflates a bit for a few days but then looses its shiny plumed look. I also have trouble keeping acros. Anyone having a similar situation?
Thanks

How algae growth is linked to " stripping" trace elements. Harvesting algae is removing trace elements and everything else. Compared to bacteria the max growth rate is very low and not suitable for "stripping"; The only thing "stripping" water is the skimmer. How comes a link is made with algae growth but not with the skimmer?

 

[Lovefish77]

How algae growth is linked to " stripping" trace elements. Harvesting algae is removing trace elements and everything else. Compared to bacteria the max growth rate is very low and not suitable for "stripping"; The only thing "stripping" water is the skimmer. How comes a link is made with algae growth but not with the skimmer?

Good point, only argument against that is the fact that most reefers are running skimmers. So if your point is valid (skimmer strips out trace elements) then everyone will be having this problem except those guys doing huge water changes, makes sense? I have read it on some threads linked to scrubber in particular.
Plus I know that skimmers take out dissolved organic compounds (or anything that is nutrients-specific) not sure trace elements fit into that category.
I read for a fact that scrubbers strip out iron and iodine, not sure about everything else.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

I'm not fully familiar with an algae scrubber stripping out Iodine. FWIW there are several Iodine types/forms (I believe, Iodide and Iodate in addition to Iodine) present in saltwater so this is a whole different discussion.

As for Iron, that is highly reactive in saltwater and will get depleted quickly whether or not you run a scrubber. IMO, Iron dosing really has no benefit towards boosting algae growth, at best it might help a scrubber get a kick start, but most of the time when someone is having trouble getting a scrubber going, it's related to something else that iron wouldn't fix (such as, incorrect lighting, lack of biodiversity, flow, scrubber construction, etc).

Potassium is one thing that will tend to get reduced by a scrubber that is growing a lot. IME it doesn't bottom out (i.e. down to zero) but it will lower it to the point where it can become a limiting factor in other organisms (monti caps will start to fade with low K)

Skimmers will pull out the skimmable bacteria, but will not remove the non-skimmable bacteria. So the argument can be made that a skimmer will cause a bias in the dominant strains of bacteria present in a system over the long term.

 

[Lovefish77]

I'm not fully familiar with an algae scrubber stripping out Iodine. FWIW there are several Iodine types/forms (I believe, Iodide and Iodate in addition to Iodine) present in saltwater so this is a whole different discussion.

As for Iron, that is highly reactive in saltwater and will get depleted quickly whether or not you run a scrubber. IMO, Iron dosing really has no benefit towards boosting algae growth, at best it might help a scrubber get a kick start, but most of the time when someone is having trouble getting a scrubber going, it's related to something else that iron wouldn't fix (such as, incorrect lighting, lack of biodiversity, flow, scrubber construction, etc).

Potassium is one thing that will tend to get reduced by a scrubber that is growing a lot. IME it doesn't bottom out (i.e. down to zero) but it will lower it to the point where it can become a limiting factor in other organisms (monti caps will start to fade with low K)

Skimmers will pull out the skimmable bacteria, but will not remove the non-skimmable bacteria. So the argument can be made that a skimmer will cause a bias in the dominant strains of bacteria present in a system over the long term.

Hi turbo great to see you here and thanks for your invaluable input. Tou helped me a great deal in learning and setting my diy algae scrubber, kudos really.
Thanks for your feedback I am just not sure what is going with my tank, coral load is not high except for the huge 10 black widow anemones in the tank which I dont think are consuming a lot of trace elements. So just scratching my head as to what is going wrong here.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

Thanks for the tip but to get outside air I need to extend the airline over 30feet defying the purpose. But you think low ph will just kill sps short term or just stifle growth?

30' of airline tubing is not a problem. No pump needed. I guess I don't understand how a long hose would defeat the purpose, unless I'm missing something - let me know.

Also you can try adding Aquachar to raise the pH

 

[Lovefish77]

30' of airline tubing is not a problem. No pump needed. I guess I don't understand how a long hose would defeat the purpose, unless I'm missing something - let me know.

Also you can try adding Aquachar to raise the pH

Thanks Turbo I once heard that for that length you need to run like a 1/4" for some of the 30' distance to compensate for lower air intake, but in my case it it is not plausible to run 1/4" pipe for a long distance.

What is Aqyachar sorry?
Thanks again