What do you think about buying, selling and trading within our hobby?

[mitch91175]

I personally feel that buying/selling/trading in the hobby is necessary and critical to the growth of the hobby in general. Not only do you have reef conservation (when selling/trading/gifting corals), but when you buy from someone that has a true passion for saltwater aquaria, you can almost bank on what you get (granted they are a stand-up person - we are all not created equal ). Look out for the vultures!!!

You also get to meet great people if you are buying/selling/trading in your local market too. I have met a great group of people through any combination of buying/selling/trading. I sell to supplement my spending habits (which I spend a lot on everything related to my habit, oh hobby ). Within my group, we primarily trade among-st each other and have a great group that if there is something (mainly equipment related) that the other needs, we still give each other some cash just because we have an understanding that all of this stuff cost $$$ (granted we do so at very reasonable prices). I think that if you have a group and people within your group need equipment (and I am not talking about just some junk you have laying around; I am talking about nice stuff here) you should give the person something for it (at least that is how I think). Whether that is trading something with them or just giving them some of their money back on what they spent goes a long way. That way no one feels like they are being taken advantage of. Coral is a different story. We trade and/or give that to each other and if someone looses a piece, we can just get them back that same piece.

When our group get together, it's not just all about reefing either (although we do talk about it). It is just getting to know each other and talking about life as a whole.

As far as giving to other hobbyist, I think the best thing that you can do is give them your knowledge (granted that isn't all but that to me is the most important) ;Bookworm. Let them know what you have had success with as well as what has failed (at least in your situation because everyone will have different mileage).

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

The question was a bit ambiguous. The thread asks if we will buy/sell/trade anything within the hobby, but the poll just asks if we'll buy/sell/trade anything irrespective of whether it was within the hobby. I answered the question assuming it was more similar to the thread title.

I actually don't like buying/selling from hobbyists very much. I think too many people try to treat this hobby as a business and they're looking to get maximum value out of things they want to sell or trade. There's nothing wrong with getting market value for something, but many times fellow hobbyists tend to overvalue things far too much. For example, a local Petsmart sells a really nice Marineland tank/stand combo. The tank is 60 gallons and has really nice black silicone seams. The stand is pretty decent looking too. The combo costs $250 in store. A quick search on Craigslist shows that hobbyists believe their old, used tanks are worth much more than the brand new one with a pristine stand and warranty. There's a 65 gallon tank with stand for $500, a 120g reef-ready (tank only) for $995, a 49 gallon bow front for $250, and so on.

This doesn't even cover topics like 3 year old Ecotech pumps, which are well outside the 1 year warranty, selling for 75% - 80% of their original purchase price, used LED lights selling for only 10% off retail, or 1/4" acropora frags selling for $700 a piece.

I suppose my main complaint is that hobbyists tend to over-value things in this hobby. It feels like people have bought the marketing hype and truly believe equipment that's years out of warranty has retained 90% of its original purchase price, or that a half inch of SPS really is worth $400 even though it will RTN if you look at it the wrong way. To me, it's much easier to buy cheaper options new than it is to try to convince someone that the marketing Kool-aid they drank was just that.

 

[mitch91175]

The only thing that I would like to see improved is the negative comments that are necessary when something gets messed up. People do not want to post anything negative but it keeps the next guy from knowing. If these types of comments accompanied the positive, then the market could truly settle everything.

People also get trashed when they post something that is seen as negative even if it is clarification or fact. This has to stop too... letting somebody know that what they are selling as $50 per polyp zoas are not actually those, but different ones, is not negative and is actually helpful. Shipping delays are facts. Bags that split open leaving a coral in now water are facts. Horrible communication is kinda a fact... well, not really, but still can be helpful. Refusing to honor a warranty is a fact.

Amen brotha!!!! This goes for sponsors too. The feedback for a sponsor thread shouldn't be buried in a completely separate "Vendor Feedback" section that is entirely difficult to find that sponsors feedback. When something negative is mentioned about a sponsor, in my experience at least, it has been quickly moved to the "Vendor Feedback" section - which I get, but when someone else is looking at that particular vendors thread, they do not see any bad experiences, only the good ones. I am a firm believer that if you want to sell a product, you better be darn sure that you are at the top of your game when doing so. And negative feedback that is received should wake you up and make you realize that if this continues, how long will the business be viable.

Great customer service only takes you soo far. You can have the best customer service in the world, but if you product is subpar, who really cares about the customer service. When you have a great product, customer service isn't all that necessary isn't it (not saying need to be non-existent, but you do not have to leverage it to have loyalty with you existing clients/customer because they know that you stand by your product).

 

[mitch91175]

The question was a bit ambiguous. The thread asks if we will buy/sell/trade anything within the hobby, but the poll just asks if we'll buy/sell/trade anything irrespective of whether it was within the hobby. I answered the question assuming it was more similar to the thread title.

I actually don't like buying/selling from hobbyists very much. I think too many people try to treat this hobby as a business and they're looking to get maximum value out of things they want to sell or trade. There's nothing wrong with getting market value for something, but many times fellow hobbyists tend to overvalue things far too much. For example, a local Petsmart sells a really nice Marineland tank/stand combo. The tank is 60 gallons and has really nice black silicone seams. The stand is pretty decent looking too. The combo costs $250 in store. A quick search on Craigslist shows that hobbyists believe their old, used tanks are worth much more than the brand new one with a pristine stand and warranty. There's a 65 gallon tank with stand for $500, a 120g reef-ready (tank only) for $995, a 49 gallon bow front for $250, and so on.

This doesn't even cover topics like 3 year old Ecotech pumps, which are well outside the 1 year warranty, selling for 75% - 80% of their original purchase price, used LED lights selling for only 10% off retail, or 1/4" acropora frags selling for $700 a piece.

I suppose my main complaint is that hobbyists tend to over-value things in this hobby. It feels like people have bought the marketing hype and truly believe equipment that's years out of warranty has retained 90% of its original purchase price, or that a half inch of SPS really is worth $400 even though it will RTN if you look at it the wrong way. To me, it's much easier to buy cheaper options new than it is to try to convince someone that the marketing Kool-aid they drank was just that.

Agree and agree. At the same time you have to also look at certain factors. Those stands at Petsmart are complete trash (regardless if they are new). I would never put a Petsmart/Petco, Pet(anything) stand in my house. I want good old solid wood. You get those stands from one of them wet (and when dealing with water it is definitely gonna get wet) and look at how they react (specially if it is made out of MDF). As a matter of fact, the only time I will buy from one of those chain store is if it is dog food or I need something in an emergency.

Now if someone is selling an aquarium with a custom built stand (not a bunch of 2x4s either) you have to value that much more than any stand that you get with any aquarium directly from the store that wasn't custom built. I know the difference (Dad was a carpenter most his adult life). That is why I wouldn't buy a Red Sea reefer as nice as they look. Stands just will not have the longevity as a custom built one.

Coral is a total different ball game. It is absolutely RIDICULOUS the prices for some coral. Some of the prices are soo high you would think that the stuff is extinct or something. If your gonna sell a 1" frag for $700, give a 12 month warranty with it (I know that isn't realistic, but anywhos). Don't get me started on the 2000 frag auctions. I fell into that trap :mad:. Never again. If you are an SPS whisperer, then that stuff will work for you. For someone just starting venturing into SPS, stay away like the plague. Most of that stuff is maricultured pieces that have been chopped up to maximize profit.

 

[Captain Quint]

As for buying, selling and trading I'm sure there is always room for improvement. I've had great experiences with R2R members and any transactions that have taken place. Given there always could be a bad apple that ruins things occasionally for some and end up leaving people with doubt of doing business with them again. Just like the vendor feed back it would be nice to see some "transaction only" feedback on members who buy, sell or trade. It might give some buyers, sellers and traders a piece of mind.

I haven't navigated all topics on my new home forum yet, and glad to see this thread. I was going to ask if there was a buyer/seller feedback for transactions.

 

[cracker]

Yes there is.You need a certain number of post but You have that covered. There are a number forums At the bottom of the forum list.

 

[CindyKz]

I've saved a lot of money buying used equipment. I also buy most of my corals from local hobbyists. I don't have many corals to trade (only in the hobby 2 years) but I do frag some of my softies and buy/sell/trade them.

That being said, I tend to stick with people that are in my local reef club. I think they are less likely to cheat another club member. Everyone knows how quickly word gets around.

 

[cpschult]

I got some corals shipped in a plain cardboard box with a few styrofoam peanuts.
Didn't work out too well.

I bought some macro algae from a guy for like 20$. Took five days, no heat/cool pack, no insulation. Guy had no idea how to ship. Smelled pretty when it got to me.

A minimum/quideline packaging instruction for some would be sweet. I know someone on here who sends his macro algae’s 2-day and has great luck where I think we all know coral and fish should be overnight, with insulation of some sort.

 

[mfinn]

I bought some macro algae from a guy for like 20$. Took five days, no heat/cool pack, no insulation. Guy had no idea how to ship. Smelled pretty when it got to me.

A minimum/quideline packaging instruction for some would be sweet. I know someone on here who sends his macro algae’s 2-day and has great luck where I think we all know coral and fish should be overnight, with insulation of some sort.

If the weather is mild then macro's usually don't need insulated boxes. It's pretty common to not use insulated boxes with chaeto. I've received, and shipped chaeto in just padded envelopes and had it arrive in good condition.
But 5 days is stretching it. And if there is heat involved, it's not a good thing.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Agree and agree. At the same time you have to also look at certain factors. Those stands at Petsmart are complete trash (regardless if they are new). I would never put a Petsmart/Petco, Pet(anything) stand in my house. I want good old solid wood. You get those stands from one of them wet (and when dealing with water it is definitely gonna get wet) and look at how they react (specially if it is made out of MDF). As a matter of fact, the only time I will buy from one of those chain store is if it is dog food or I need something in an emergency.

Now if someone is selling an aquarium with a custom built stand (not a bunch of 2x4s either) you have to value that much more than any stand that you get with any aquarium directly from the store that wasn't custom built. I know the difference (Dad was a carpenter most his adult life). That is why I wouldn't buy a Red Sea reefer as nice as they look. Stands just will not have the longevity as a custom built one.

Coral is a total different ball game. It is absolutely RIDICULOUS the prices for some coral. Some of the prices are soo high you would think that the stuff is extinct or something. If your gonna sell a 1" frag for $700, give a 12 month warranty with it (I know that isn't realistic, but anywhos). Don't get me started on the 2000 frag auctions. I fell into that trap :mad:. Never again. If you are an SPS whisperer, then that stuff will work for you. For someone just starting venturing into SPS, stay away like the plague. Most of that stuff is maricultured pieces that have been chopped up to maximize profit.

I think you're grossly over-estimating the quality of stand that you'll find with tanks on Craigslist. I've never seen a used tank for sale that includes the type of stand you describe. Not once in over a decade of reefing and buying used tanks/stands. The only time I've seen such an expertly-engineered stand is on a web forum like this, and the seller knows the quality of their work and expects you to pay for it. I might have seen a few 2x4 stands over the years, but these were literally 2x4 stands. No skin, no paint, no nothing, just some framing lumber screwed together with deck screws. I've probably used 4 or so different stands from big box pet stores, and while a few were junk, two of them were very strong despite being made of MDF. You have to be careful with what you buy, but I don't think it's fair to say all pet store stands are garbage.

Most of the tanks on Craigslist likely came from a big box pet store. These tanks likely came with the very same stands that are still being sold in pet stores. My original point, that you can't sell a used tank and stand for double what one costs new, still stands.

 

[mitch91175]

I think you're grossly over-estimating the quality of stand that you'll find with tanks on Craigslist. I've never seen a used tank for sale that includes the type of stand you describe. Not once in over a decade of reefing and buying used tanks/stands. The only time I've seen such an expertly-engineered stand is on a web forum like this, and the seller knows the quality of their work and expects you to pay for it. I might have seen a few 2x4 stands over the years, but these were literally 2x4 stands. No skin, no paint, no nothing, just some framing lumber screwed together with deck screws. I've probably used 4 or so different stands from big box pet stores, and while a few were junk, two of them were very strong despite being made of MDF. You have to be careful with what you buy, but I don't think it's fair to say all pet store stands are garbage.

Most of the tanks on Craigslist likely came from a big box pet store. These tanks likely came with the very same stands that are still being sold in pet stores. My original point, that you can't sell a used tank and stand for double what one costs new, still stands.

Oh no definitely not over-stating it, just my preference and what I do look for. I agree that a bunch of that stuff is utterly garbage. Every once in a while, you'll find a diamond in the junk selling on there. I honestly laugh to myself when I see some of the stuff people try to sell (then they wonder why they are getting out of the hobby).

 

[mitch91175]

Put it this way, if I was getting out of the hobby and sold my stuff, people would be lined up at my door (then maybe not too). I try to buy quality versus quantity and only buy once. I do that with every purchase I make (regardless of the type of product).

 

[hockeyhead019]

Interesting thread.

Somebody hit on it earlier that the lack of shipping standards when trading/buy from other member is tough (not just this site, more of a general comment) and usually pushes me to the LFS since they're reasonably priced.

Somebody else also hit on the point of people over-valuing used goods in the hobby. I think there is a poor culture of "well I spend $500 on this brand new, so I should be able to re-coup 80% to help pay for my upgrade"... which just isn't how it goes typically lol. Sure there are some things which have the track record to justify an asking price but not all things.

 

[Cherie cook]

I have a question...if I sell an almost brand new piece of equipment to someone, how do I make sure the warranty transfers to the new owner?

 

[mitch91175]

I have a question...if I sell an almost brand new piece of equipment to someone, how do I make sure the warranty transfers to the new owner?

Send them the original purchase receipt and be there for them if in case there is a problem. Usually will ship back to you since you are the original purchaser (at least the majority of the time). A lot of manufacturers do not allow warranty transfer.

 

[cpschult]

If the weather is mild then macro's usually don't need insulated boxes. It's pretty common to not use insulated boxes with chaeto. I've received, and shipped chaeto in just padded envelopes and had it arrive in good condition.
But 5 days is stretching it. And if there is heat involved, it's not a good thing.

Oh I wasn’t expecting heat or cool pads. If it was shipped 2-3 day. At five days.. yeah.