What does the Kessil Color Wheel actually change?

[Smarkow]

I love the visual appeal of my Kessil AP700's, which I combo with 4x CoralPlus T5 bulbs on my mixed reef. However I struggle with blindly trusting "Kessil Logic," often expressed as 'just choose the shade of blue you like best, add in red and green to visual effect, dial in the sunrise/sunset, and presto.' So does changing the color wheel shift the PEAK wavelength of the light within the blue spectrum or does it shift the entire spectrum, or does it control how much "white"/red/green/violet light is added to an IDEAL spectrum in the ~400-500 nm range (ie the Deep Ocean Blue has nothing outside of 400-500 added and the Sky Blue has the most other ranges added).

The start of my peak intensity range:

 

[Smarkow]

Still have not been able to find any answers online. So self bumping lol

 

[Hugo Tait]

Would love to know this too. Bump.

My observation is that 3rd and 4th Ocean Blue, without any red or green, put out most par (roughly the same). Adding either of the coloured channels decreases intensity, both visually and when measured with a Seneye Par meter. This would suggest power is being re-distributed to other LEDs rather than added to existing channels.

 

[Smarkow]

Would love to know this too. Bump.

My observation is that 3rd and 4th Ocean Blue, without any red or green, put out most par (roughly the same). Adding either of the coloured channels decreases intensity, both visually and when measured with a Seneye Par meter. This would suggest power is being re-distributed to other LEDs rather than added to existing channels.

Thanks. This is super interesting to know! I want to rewatch dana riddle’s fluorescence talk and then play with my kessils and seneye now. Trying to remember if seneye gives PUR in addition to PAR or not...?

 

[Hugo Tait]

Thanks. This is super interesting to know! I want to rewatch dana riddle’s fluorescence talk and then play with my kessils and seneye now. Trying to remember if seneye gives PUR in addition to PAR or not...?

Technically yes, it does PUR too, but I'd use it as more of a guide. My Radion XR15s score around 80-83% PUR running AB+ at 75% intensity. My AP700 is slightly lower (high 70s) with the middle ocean blue, and the same high 70s for ATI AB+ bulbs in T5.

I've also experimented with different light filters (using natural sunlight) peaking at around 450nm with another peak in the UVA spectrum, but this doesn't reach the same PUR as the LEDs. I'm therefore wandering if the Seneye PUR algorithm is more based on colour than on actual spectral peaks (is this even possible?!).

 

[Aardvark1134]

Kessil locks in the coral band. The adjustments are to adjust to the way you visually like it.

 

[Smarkow]

Kessil locks in the coral band. The adjustments are to adjust to the way you visually like it.

So I guess this is a big part of what I have been wondering... why do we have both the wheel AND the separate red/green dials?

 

[Smarkow]

Finally found this image, which google links to the kessil website but I can’t find the actual page. I guess this helps me some. I’m trying to recover the fluorescence and pigmentation one of my corals lost after a salinity spike.

 

[Hugo Tait]

Kessil locks in the coral band. The adjustments are to adjust to the way you visually like it.

I would say that the Kessil logic locks in the blue ratio, sufficient for coral growth, but then lowers this intensity if users choose to add green or red into the mix. The resultant spectrum will still be good for coral growth, but not optimal, especially if a large amount of green is added, since the power has been re-distributed from the primary photosynthetic peaks of chlorophyll and carotenoids to fairly unusable green peaks, which I believe are longer than the carotenoid Peridinin is able to absorb.

It also seems strange that the red peak appears (from the graph) less than 650/660 peak commonly cited as beneficial for photosynthesis

 

[Aardvark1134]

Again red on this light is not for growth...its red just like the green is green. The red green and white are purely for making it look the way you want.

 

[Smarkow]

So what would the difference be between setting the max deep ocean blue but adding in green and red, vs setting a lighter blue (say my deep ocean 3?) and adding in very little green and red?

 

[Cwentz758]

Certain corals change color under red and greens, BRS did a video showing the difference with reds added or greens added

 

[Smarkow]

Certain corals change color under red and greens, BRS did a video showing the difference with reds added or greens added

Yup that’s what got me to redo my light settings... but their video was sort of specific to the slider bar types, not so much the color wheel. :/

I’ll be frank, I love the shimmer from my kessils and the lack of any disco-ball effect... but the ap700 wifi and controller overall, plus the fact that they are “closed units” that can’t be repaired... idk

 

[Hugo Tait]

For reference, my AP700 draws approx 147W (max.) which occurs on the deepest blue colour setting. The "addition" of red or green reduces this draw significantly, further suggesting power is diverted away from the blue channels to light the red/green diodes, rather than being added to it. This would also explain my PAR findings earlier.

 

[Smarkow]

For reference, my AP700 draws approx 147W (max.) which occurs on the deepest blue colour setting. The "addition" of red or green reduces this draw significantly, further suggesting power is diverted away from the blue channels to light the red/green diodes, rather than being added to it. This would also explain my PAR findings earlier.

How high off the tank water do you have yours mounted? I put mine in a hybrid fixture with 4x coralplus t5 at 11.5 off the water.

Any idea what your actual PAR is? I have not measurezd mine in a long time... like since install... and realized I no longer have a windows machine to run the seneye off :/
Still toying with idea of going more blue heavy, or of changing to actinic t5/blueplus combo

 

[Smarkow]

The aquatic life 60”

 

[Hugo Tait]

Mine is 10" off the surface mounted in an Aquatic life 4x39W fixture 2x AB+, 2x Coral+. The centre can hit 450+ at 8" under the water's surface (18" total distance from fixture) with both LEDs and T5s running. spread is very good.

 

[tjclapp]

I love the visual appeal of my Kessil AP700's, which I combo with 4x CoralPlus T5 bulbs on my mixed reef. However I struggle with blindly trusting "Kessil Logic," often expressed as 'just choose the shade of blue you like best, add in red and green to visual effect, dial in the sunrise/sunset, and presto.' So does changing the color wheel shift the PEAK wavelength of the light within the blue spectrum or does it shift the entire spectrum, or does it control how much "white"/red/green/violet light is added to an IDEAL spectrum in the ~400-500 nm range (ie the Deep Ocean Blue has nothing outside of 400-500 added and the Sky Blue has the most other ranges added).

The start of my peak intensity range:

Would also love to know... I also own an AP700 and have no clue. Lol

 

[minus9]

Kessil logic dictates that the spectrum to grow coral will essentially stay the same no matter what color setting you select. If you watched the BRS video on the a360x, then you can see how this is represented in their color graphs. AFAIK, the red and green are purely for visually appeal and not for coral growth (I think there are only one or two diodes for each?). I used two 700's over my tank for nearly 3 years and never used the red or green. I just switched to all 360x's and I may experiment with using a little red a green in the future? My biggest issue with the 700 is the wifi app, it's the Achilles heal of this light. If Kessil found a way to directly connect the light to their controller via USB, then it has a future.
I absolutely love Kessil, coming back to the hobby after using metal halides, it was the only LED I considered and use (besides Orphek bars). I do have an older Radion that I borrowed from a friend, so I'll experiment and try to match the ab+ setting out of curiosity. Sorry, hopefully I didn't derail the thread. Also, I don't think there's enough of the red and green diodes, when maxed out, would pull power from the other more vital diodes, that would counter Kessil logic altogether.

 

[Hugo Tait]

Also, I don't think there's enough of the red and green diodes, when maxed out, would pull power from the other more vital diodes, that would counter Kessil logic altogether.

From the Kessil marketing this is what I originally believed. However, my data above suggest they do pull power from the other channels, so I would assume that "Kessil logic" is just maintaining a blue spectrum ratio, but reducing the intensity when other colours are added.