What "Heavy Metals" does Reef Crystal salt mix exactly detoxify?

40B Knasty · Jun 22, 2017

I can see this thread being a better reason for most to use IORC salt if it really dose detoxify a harmful metal or metals like copper for example for the people that do not use an RO/DI system. So we can rule out "it doesn't matter, because the RO/DI will take out the heavy metals."
IORC claims there is a detoxifier to neutralize traces of heavy metal. Kind of like Prime does for new salt mix. How it removes chlorine and chloramine, and "detoxifies" ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates(not removes it).
Does anyone have proof that Instant Ocean Reef Crystals actually does detoxifies a metal or metals and which metals?
Also if this is true about it detoxifying a heavy metal or metals. Is it neutralized or is it done by just binding the metal and captured by a chemical filter like a carbon or GFO bag or reactor and when the carbon or GFO is removed. That is when it is considered neutralized/removed?
And if it is just binding it. Does it technically not detoxify it. It just makes the metal able to be removed from a chemical filter like carbon or GFO. So do we have to have a carbon or GFO to truly neutralize it and remove it?
This what it says in their sales pitch.

Metal Detoxifier - to neutralize traces of heavy metal often present in domestic water Supplies.

Mr. Bill · Jun 22, 2017

Following... I'd like to know, too. A quick google search of the question revealed a variety of aquarium products sporting the same claim, but nothing useful.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

A metal detoxifier would be a metal chelator, such as EDTA. It will bind strongly to metals and make them much less bioavailable to organisms even when still in solution. Whether that is a good thing to do or not is a valid debate, IMO, since it can make metals you need less bioavailable too.

For example, if you have excess copper, it may be desirable to reduce the bioavailability. If you have normal or lower copper, it may be undesirable to make it less bioavailable since it is a needed metal.

Husker · Jun 22, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
A metal detoxifier would be a metal chelator, such as EDTA. It will bind strongly to metals and make them much less bioavailable to organisms even when still in solution. Whether that is a good thing to do or not is a valid debate, IMO, since it can make metals you need less bioavailable too.

For example, if you have excess copper, it may be desirable to reduce the bioavailability. If you have normal or lower copper, it may be undesirable to make it less bioavailable since it is a needed metal.

I had no idea. EDTA (or something similar) seems like an odd thing to add in, because EDTA also chelates calcium and magnesium. Are the kinetics such that Ca/Mg are out competed by heavy metals for EDTA binding?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

Husker said:
I had no idea. EDTA (or something similar) seems like an odd thing to add in, because EDTA also chelates calcium and magnesium. Are the kinetics such that Ca/Mg are out competed by heavy metals for EDTA binding?

EDTA is just an example. I do not know what they add, but certainly some chelators chelate copper far stronger than calcium and magnesium (as does EDTA), and there is so much of those (Ca and Mg) that a small amount of chelator won't noticeably impact the availability of those.

Husker · Jun 22, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
EDTA is just an example. I do not know what they add, but certainly some chelators chelate copper far stronger than calcium and magnesium (as does EDTA), and there is so much of those (Ca and Mg) that a small amount of chelator won't noticeably impact the availability of those.

Interesting. I am no chemist, I just know EDTA is used to prevent Mg/Ca from inactivating trypsin. I assumed there would be some target preferences of the chelators, but if EDTA can chelate heavy metals they are more broad than I thought.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

Here's a table of metal chelators:

https://www.dojindo.com/Images/Product Photo/Chelate_Table_of_Stability_Constants.pdf

You can see that EDTA is far stronger at binding Cu++ than Ca++ and Mg++, but some other chelators are even stronger on copper, such as DTPA.

Husker · Jun 22, 2017

Very cool, thanks.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

40B Knasty · Jun 22, 2017

Just to sum it up.
It is a good question and one that can not be answered due to the uncertainty of what the binder is, what the focus of this binding detoxifier is to, but this unknown detoxifier is in the IORC could potentially be harmful and helpful at the same time making the sales pitch hold truth, but have potential consequences. It could be great by removing a metal that is high in a count, but also a metal to low and possibly making the metal nonexistent to a point where it is being needed. Highlight the positive and mask the negative effects.. Nice! But you are also saying Randy at the same time this detoxifier is non impactful. So it is just a sales pitch?
Next question. Is it really us as reef keepers making it hard on ourselves or is it the Uncle Sam of the hobby making it that way

I do have a real question though, because I am going through it.
Since I do have .000TDS and it is not from using an RO/DI unit. I am not using a carbon bag at the moment due to medicating the tank with Medic by Polyp Lab. This detoxifier in the IORC binding the unknown to us metals. Is not removing/neutralizing them at all, because there is no carbon, correct?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

I might be impactful if you have excess copper in your water, but I chose regular IO (which does not have such a metal binder) relative to RC due to the added organics (this chelator and vitamins). I do not want thise in a salt mix.

The detoxifier is detoxifying excess metals (reducing toxicity), whether it is removed or not.

40B Knasty · Jun 22, 2017

Thanks for your insight. Seems like RC would be the better choice for me since I am not fully testing every mineral, not using an RO/DI, and everything seems to be fine except my nutrient's export or amount of silicates.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 22, 2017

I agree it may be useful if you are using tap water.

Also, let the tap water run for a while before using it as copper from your own pipes may be the primary source of it and lead.

40B Knasty · Jun 22, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I agree it may be useful if you are using tap water.

Also, let the tap water run for a while before using it as copper from your own pipes may be the primary source of it and lead.

I do. You have mentioned that before. I use a Zerowater filter and prime. So between the tap water being run for awhile, the filter being 5 stage giving me .000TDS, the detoxifier in the RC, and prime I may have a somewhat good balanced water quality when it is all tied together.

rosshamsandwich · May 23, 2018

does this detoxify lead and aluminum also?

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 23, 2018

rosshamsandwich said:
does this detoxify lead and aluminum also?

I can't be sure (since I don;'t know what they use and at what levels), but I would strongly expect not. I would also not expect the effect to linger in the aquarium.